Manchester Arena incident - many reported dead

[mod]

We need to talk about what inspired Salman Abedi's attack on Manchester

Some salient points that need to be repeated and often:

Good piece.

This is important too...

After 9/11, President Bush portrayed Iraq not Saudi Arabia as the enemy; in a re-run of history President Trump is ludicrously accusing Iran of being the source of most terrorism in the Middle East.

 

[Brainaddict]

Nobody's generating hostility by stating a fact either, and nor did anybody say there are no terrorist attacks carried out by others.

I'd put money on the next big one being the work of another Jihadi rather than anybody else, though.

You weren't 'stating a fact' you idiot, you were proposing the large-scale intervention of the state in a culture, a fundamentally violent proposal, though I'm sure you won't understand it as violence until you become the target.

You haven't answered the question of whether and how you want the state to intervene in white supremacist culture yet.

 

[RD2003]

You weren't 'stating a fact' you idiot, you were proposing the large-scale intervention of the state in a culture, a fundamentally violent proposal, though I'm sure you won't understand it as violence until you become the target.

You haven't answered the question of whether and how you want the state to intervene in white supremacist culture yet.

What are you on about? I made no proposals of any kind.

 

[Brainaddict]

What are you on about? I made no proposals of any kind.

You seemed to be agreeing with doubledown above that 'intervention' in 'muslim culture' was necessary but would not be entertained. Perhaps I misread you.

 

[RD2003]

You seemed to be agreeing with doubledown above that 'intervention' in muslim culture was necessary but would not be entertained. Perhaps I misread you.

Think you need to calm down.

 

[Brainaddict]

Think you need to calm down.

Perhaps, but post #896 was rather deliberately ambiguous I think, and not what I expected on here as a response to doubledown's violent suggestion. Your responses became kind of blurred with his in my mind...

 

[RD2003]

Perhaps, but post #896 was rather deliberately ambiguous I think, and not what I expected on here as a response to doubledown's violent suggestion. Your responses became kind of blurred with his in my mind...

It was meant to convey that the kind of thing he was proposing, even in the unlikely event of such things being taken up by a mainstream politician, would never see the light of day.

 

[Brainaddict]

It was meant to convey that the kind of thing he was proposing will never see the light of day.

But isn't the main point that it's a wrong-headed, fucked-up suggestion that would make matters worse, rather than it being just something that will be avoided for imagined political correctness reasons or something?

 

[ViolentPanda]

How is targeting teenagers at a concert polarising? Even your average daesh sympathiser will see it as a bad move.

I'm not sure I agree with your last. This sort of behaviour, as we've seen with Bataclan and various other atrocities, is about the spectacle more than about the victims.

 

[RD2003]

But isn't the main point that it's a wrong-headed, fucked-up suggestion that would make matters worse, rather than it being just something that will be avoided for imagined political correctness reasons or something?

Most likely it would, but we shouldn't let our own complacency blind us to the fact that they're likely to get worse anyway.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I've actually been got by this. Normally pretty bloody stoic about these kinds of things, even when much closer to me personally, 7/7. But, fuck sakes, this is just so fucking awful I'm losing it and going to pieces a bit.

Fucking wanker.

That's kind of the aim though - to project "none of you are safe, not kids, not commuters, no-one", and to destabilise opinion so that some will react against Muslims per se (I've already had to listen to knob-ends ranting about "rounding up the Muzzie scum" and "sweeping Tooting clean" ) and push public sentiment even further against Muslims in general. Such a thing would be a victory for the more hard-right of the Tory party, and for the UKIP twats, as well as for the Da'eshites.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Been working with primary school kids today, and I overheard a few of them talking about this attack. Talking about the number of casualties in a pretty flippant, neutral sort of way. Horrible to think of them growing up in a world where this is just a thing that happens sometimes.

Of course when I was their age there were IRA attacks happening, and I suppose we would have talked about them in much the same way. Targetting kids though, that's a kind of evil we never really had to contemplate.

Except every time the state of Israel has deliberately bombed a Palestinian school, anyway, but no, not on home soil.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I wasn't angry until I consulted social media. The thing that depresses me is the ugly memes I see. However many terrorists there are, there's another (probably larger) group of people just as willing to use the death of an 8-year-old girl to inspire hatred and conflict. They just don't go to the trouble of actually blowing anyone up.

Does that make any sense? It may not.

It makes a lot of sense. There are always gobshites and keyboard warriors ready to use atrocities to serve their own agenda, sadly.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Donald Trump has got a big gob. Apparently America released the name against the wishes of British intelligence which is a bit of a kick in the teeth. (Guardian reports).

I was angry and then I saw a photo of the alleged attacker, and I thought, he's just a kid whose life has been ruined along with a load of other people. What a tragedy.

I hope it was a one off.

The use of bolts etc is just horrible, there should be some kind of fucking terrorist Geneva convention that bans it.

The Provisionals (and street rioters) used shrap against troops in Ulster. It's utilitarian - easily available bits of whatever metal you have lying around - and with a bit of effort can be made into a shaped charge that does horrific damage, and only needs the powder from half a dozen shotgun cartridges (or a quarter of a pound of home-made black powder) to cause a fucking horrific mess.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think the troops being deployed is a step to keep the public calm/feel secure.

It may be a step to prevent vigilantly justice by groups of knuckle dragging thugs out to attack/kill Muslims.

It's the former, not the latter.

The problem with such thinking - about public reassurance - is that just as many feel insecure due to seeing troops on the street, as feel secure.

 

[ViolentPanda]

View attachment 107551

All coming out of the woodwork now.

Allison Pearson is a fucking right-wing fruitbat at the best of times. Coming out with that sort of shit just accrues kudos to the mad cunt who bombed the arena - it plays his game.

 

[Pickman's model]

The use of bolts etc is just horrible, there should be some kind of fucking terrorist Geneva convention that bans it.

yeh, only properly trained soldiers should be equipped with that sort of thing.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why are you smiling at this thought?

That's no smile. It's smugface.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are a massive prick.

He's a massive prick with a very small prick.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

And in context with the scriptures which those cites actually sit next to?

 

[Ranbay]

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".


Allah = god so anyone who believes in god is sound Shirley?

 

[gentlegreen]

And in context with the scriptures which those cites actually sit next to?

OK - there's :-

190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihad, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].

Noble Quran - Translation of Sura Al-Baqarah

Seems a bit vague ...

 

[Pickman's model]

OK - there's :-

190. And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihad, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].

Noble Quran - Translation of Sura Al-Baqarah

Seems a bit vague ...

haven't you got something better to do with your time?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Lucky there's nothing about violence in the bible isn't it?

 

[gentlegreen]

haven't you got something better to do with your time?

I'm having a sit-down between shopping and cooking my tea.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm having a sit-down between shopping and cooking my tea.

yeh. haven't you got something better to do than post ultra-vapid wank here?

 

[Cid]

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

(leviticus 20:10)

Mind you Jesus did respond with that 'he who is without sin' stuff.

 

[Cid]

In fact logically shouldn't Jesus have stoned her?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

In fact logically shouldn't Jesus have stoned her?

Yeah but he was a bloody hippy!

John 8:1-11

8 Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, 2 but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. 3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

11 “No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

 

[Raheem]

In fact logically shouldn't Jesus have stoned her?

You're assuming that Jesus was without sin. But, actually, he was into dogging. It's in the sequel.