Mail: a truly despicable article ("nothing 'natural' about Stephen Gately's death")

[Mitre10]

To DC and Trashy,

Wasn't trying to denigrate what has happened here in any way, was just voicing my own thoughts and doubts.

If any major sponsors pull out full-time I will be astonished. If there is a protest by any then I imagine that the DM will just apologise, say it won't happen again and offer them half price rates for 3 months (or some other sweetener) - which they will take as any business would.

Sad but true - that's why I think that the long game, rather than concentrating on this one article, is the way forward.

Well done to all involved over the last couple of days though, esp Stella and BK.

 

[trashpony]

Oh no it's cool - fair enough to challenge and it's worth exploring

But advertisers will be wary about placing ads on Moir's page. So what is the DM going to do? Give them editorial control/run the column with no ads on the page or get rid of Moir?

Serious question.

 

[Wolveryeti]

Q: What's small, brown and very relieved?


A: Steven Gateley's hamster!

 

[Mitre10]

Oh no it's cool - fair enough to challenge and it's worth exploring

But advertisers will be wary about placing ads on Moir's page. So what is the DM going to do? Give them editorial control/run the column with no ads on the page or get rid of Moir?

Serious question.

I imagine that the ads are placed on the pages more or less at random, didn't look like any of the companies listed earlier were picking up on any keywords in her vile diatribe so I would think that they will just put some other adverts on her page for the next few weeks and make a note to skip her page in terms of advertisement for any people upset today.

I hope from this demonstration that you can make the people in charge of the DM aware of the danger of allowing Moir a free reign and make her wind her neck in - I think that would be a good result for now.

If she does write another inflammatory or nasty article in the future, then I think by what you have achieved in the last 48 hours she will be then judged as a repeat offender and I hope she gets hit like the fist of an angry God.

As I said, I have no answers but I wouldn't hold out any hope that what you have achieved here will have an effect in terms of Moir's public resignation or even an apology.

As I tried to say above, sustained vigilance and pressure over a period of time would seem to me to be the best way.

I wish you luck and if you need any help I'll try where I can.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Q: What's small, brown and very relieved?


A: Steven Gateley's hamster!

I don't get it.

 

[malice]

I think one outcome will be on other publications and their willingness to employ Jan Moir. As some people pointed out she has worked in the Guardian in the past - I think doing food reviews, and I think it was a while ago, and I'd be very surprised if they employed her again. The mail might be able to absorb the flak, but others might not be, and it will limit her options long term. I agree, the Mail and its editorial policy is more pernicious than her, but equally it should be a good sign that you can't take a commission like this and write this kind of article with impunity

 

[gosub]

I honestly think enough has been ,done(or nearly) cutting the Daily Bile's revenue stream meant they don't profit from being crass and contentious but the surely any coup de gras regarding Moir and Dacre should surely be saved for Mr Gately's family. The PCC have said they have made themselves available to the family presumably through Louis Walsh.

I would suggest waiting til Monday (there is a funeral today and hangovers tommorrow) and emailing his offices with an outline any evidence that might have accumulated

 

[john x]

So what is the DM going to do? Give them editorial control/run the column with no ads on the page or get rid of Moir?

Serious question.

Why does it have to do either?

Also serious question.

john x

 

[trashpony]

Why does it have to do either?

Also serious question.

john x

They are a printed paper first and foremost. If advertisers don't want to pay for ads on her page (and advertisers do care where their ads are placed - that's how papers sell space), then how are they going to continue with her column? The only way print makes money is through selling ad space. The cover price is only a contribution to costs.

 

[fogbat]

I don't get it.

It's just a sad, desperate bleat for attention. Best ignored.

 

[john x]

They are a printed paper first and foremost. If advertisers don't want to pay for ads on her page (and advertisers do care where their ads are placed - that's how papers sell space),

They don't pay for ads on her page they pay for ads in the paper and there is plenty of scope for rearranging the layout to cope with this. Also there are plenty of advertisers who don't really care what the adjacent content is as long as the ad is prominently displayed.

There is even an argument for charging a premium rate for ads placed near Moir's pieces, as they will certainly attract more attention over the coming weeks and months.

john x

 

[trashpony]

They don't pay for ads on her page they pay for ads in the paper and there is plenty of scope for rearranging the layout to cope with this. Also there are plenty of advertisers who don't really care what the adjacent content is as long as the ad is prominently displayed.

There is even an argument for charging a premium rate for ads placed near Moir's pieces, as they will certainly attract more attention over the coming weeks and months.

john x

Course they do you div! Papers charge lots more for ads on more popular pages. And the statements (from even the highly unethical nestle) suggest most organisations won't want to touch her with a bargepole. Suggest a company that doesn't give a shit about alienating a huge swathe of the population and I'll show you one that's fucking up royally.

 

[john x]

Suggest a company that doesn't give a shit about alienating a huge swathe of the population and I'll show you one that's fucking up royally.

What you are forgetting is that 'huge swathe of the population' that are appalled by homophobia, don't generally read the Mail.

john x

 

[trashpony]

What you are forgetting is that 'huge swathe of the population' that are appalled by homophobia, don't generally read the Mail.

john x

That's not the point though. The point is that companies don't want to be associated with it hence them moving their ads

 

[john x]

companies don't want to be associated with it

Don't want to be associated with it when there is an almighty row kicking off.

To paint this as a crisis for the Mail is simply not realistic.

Next week when it all settles down it will be forgotten about. As I said in an earlier post, people can't be arsed to keep this kind of pressure up.

Sad, but true.

john x

 

[krtek a houby]

I hope the DM gets all the flak it deserves.

Has a complaint been made to Scotland Yard? According to the Irish Times, there has...

 

[trashpony]

I hope the DM gets all the flak it deserves.

Has a complaint been made to Scotland Yard? According to the Irish Times, there has...

Yes. People have complained about incitement to race hatred.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes. People have complained about incitement to race hatred.

Race hatred?

 

[temper_tantrum]

Yes -
http://www.lgf.org.uk/lgf-reports-daily-mail-s-jan-moir-for-incitement-to-hatred/

Edit: Incitement to hatred, not race hatred!

 

[trashpony]

Race hatred?

Yes -
http://www.lgf.org.uk/lgf-reports-daily-mail-s-jan-moir-for-incitement-to-hatred/

Edit: Incitement to hatred, not race hatred!

Yes hatred of the Irish of course!

Not really my lack of sleep is beginning to catch up on me

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes hatred of the Irish of course!

Not really my lack of sleep is beginning to catch up on me

I was wondering!

But this is a good move; would be nice to see the Moir hauled up in front of the magistrates.

 

[Gingerman]

Like to see that bastard Dacre get his fat arse handed to him on a plate over this as well

 

[ovaltina]

http://www.dailyquail.org/2009/10/jan-moir-why-theres-nothing-natural.html

Some might say the death and the fact that the deathee was gay are unconnected. To them, I say: 'no'. Look at the facts - he died, and he was gay. Therefore he died of gay.

 

[trashpony]

http://www.dailyquail.org/2009/10/jan-moir-why-theres-nothing-natural.html

Some might say the death and the fact that the deathee was gay are unconnected. To them, I say: 'no'. Look at the facts - he died, and he was gay. Therefore he died of gay.

That's brilliant - have posted on the group

 

[untethered]

What's the real story here? The world is full of people that don't agree with left-liberals. Unable to confront that fact they attempt to bully everyone else into silence.

Will it work? Unlikely, let's be honest. But whatever the outcome it's got nothing to do with genuine persuasion or winning the argument.

 

[john x]

Will it work? Unlikely, let's be honest. But whatever the outcome it's got nothing to do with genuine persuasion or winning the argument.

What do you think the response to the article in question should have been?

john x

 

[Ranbay]

Well said Jan. Couldn't agree more

- wedwivwage, London, 16/10/2009 14:29
Rating -5004

Awesome !

 

[Weller]

Just checked my webspace details for the 24 hours that updated at 8.00am approx this morning and as you can see below the captured picture of the original story before the headline changed that is linked on the facebook site got 14,876 hits up until 8.00am today and by the looks of things may very well have been double that since

Its been linked to at many different pages including a few gay sites and gaurdian / telegraph forums by the look of it so at least its kept a few peeps off the DM site and many thousands got to see the original via the facebook

14 Oct 2009 1 1 1 1.12 KB
15 Oct 2009 2 3 5 103.46 KB
16 Oct 2009 52 63 12480 5.42 GB
17 Oct 2009 5 5 2396 838.21 MB

It is just a personal webspace with my ADSL supplier so as you can see thats a bit up on the previous days 2 hits and 103 KB to about 8 gb

Nice one

 

[untethered]

What do you think the response to the article in question should have been?

That would depend on the individuals in question but I doubt it should include attempts to ensure that no-one could write, publish or read such things.

As no doubt others have mentioned, the Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday are right-wing papers and this kind of thing isn't unusual. Linking some fairly shaky claims about the apparent circumstances of Mr Gately's death with a wider criticism of his lifestyle is tasteless and unwise but the idea that the Mail and most of its readers are going to have an "inclusive" epiphany is patently ridiculous.

 

[john x]

but the idea that the Mail and most of its readers are going to have an "inclusive" epiphany is patently ridiculous.

Which is probably why few on here are suggesting it as a realistic possibility.

john x