Mail: a truly despicable article ("nothing 'natural' about Stephen Gately's death")
- Thread starter Badger Kitten
- Start date
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
That's stupid talk. Jan Muir was doing what that paper always does which is feed and entertain the prejudicies of its readership. Except this time she and the editor misjudged the line.
Liberals don't buy the paper anyway; you can't ignore in a commercial sense what you already ignore.
You cannot say to ignore the article is a good way forward when M&S and other advertisers withdrew support.
I don't think anyone can, not with this story. As I said upthread, there's not enough anger - this is nowhere near the scale of The Sun and Hillsborough. I was just trying to make the point that negative comments alone don't harm Moir. Quite the reverse - it will be champagne and high fives for her. She'll have won the 'most commented story of the week' prize.
That's not how it works. The Mail is on the internet! Every liberal who reads that article on the Mail's site is a reader and generates ad income. All of us have earned money for the Mail with this campaign.
I doubt that Dacre and Moir have any regrets about the article. They will be telling themselves that the silent majority of Mail readers agree that gays live dangerously so they die young.
trashpony
Hag
It's not negative comments alone. The furore has been unprecedented for an opinion piece. Advertisers have withdrawn ads. They are not going to want to pay for the space they've booked. And they are going to be very wary of placing ads again with them, certainly not on Moir's page. Petitions have been made to Parliament to get her sacked. People have written to Fitness First and BA to ask them to stop giving out free copies of the DM. So that's a bit more than 'negative comments' wouldn't you agree?
I'd also be very surprised indeed if she's left the house today. She must be shitting herself. I am quite tempted to do a drive by to see if anyone's throwing eggs at her windows
Who's withdrawn ads? Got any links?
I think this will all blow over unless the campaign is sustained. The advertisers love the Mail so they hope this will be forgotten quickly. What's needed is for the campaign to be a continued irritant to the advertisers, costing them time and money and embarrassment. Then the money men will take notice and Dacre will implode.
I think this will all blow over unless the campaign is sustained. The advertisers love the Mail so they hope this will be forgotten quickly. What's needed is for the campaign to be a continued irritant to the advertisers, costing them time and money and embarrassment. Then the money men will take notice and Dacre will implode.
john x
Well-Known Member
Sadly I have to agree with this. Moir and her like, are people who resent the fact that you can't use the word 'nigger' in public to describe black people anymore. She will be seen as having struck a mighty blow against political correctness.
People who see the world like that will always read that shit. And commerce is not your friend in the fight. They will, (and can) only respond to a threat to their bottom line. Someone cited the Hillsborough/Sun case. It is a popular misconception that you can't buy a copy of the Sun in Liverpool. Not true. Although sales are down, almost every newsagent in the city sells it.
The real problem is that people don't really care enough to sustain any effective opposition, and only want to get involved when something 'exciting' happens like yesterday.
john x
Good luck with that, my google-fu is failing me.
john x
Well-Known Member
No she didn't.
And even if she had (I take it you mean libel, not slander) there is no way he would get involved with a complaint.
john x
5t3IIa
Registered User
Who's withdrawn ads? Got any links?
I think this will all blow over unless the campaign is sustained. The advertisers love the Mail so they hope this will be forgotten quickly. What's needed is for the campaign to be a continued irritant to the advertisers, costing them time and money and embarrassment. Then the money men will take notice and Dacre will implode.
THERE ARE NO ADS ON THE PAGE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1220756/A-strange-lonely-troubling-death--.html AND IT WAS ALL OVER THE TV NEWS YESTERDAY THAT ADVERTISERS PULLED THEIR ADS.
paulhackett
voiced by strother martin
THERE ARE NO ADS ON THE PAGE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1220756/A-strange-lonely-troubling-death--.html AND IT WAS ALL OVER THE TV NEWS YESTERDAY THAT ADVERTISERS PULLED THEIR ADS.
On the left hand side, in line with the bottom of the picture of Stephen Gately, there are links to BT Broadband and Tescos Groceries under the word Advertisers - I'm not sure if that falls into the same category as the adverts which have been moved/pulled but it is still links to these companies?
BT Broadband were on your FB page, but Tescos weren't..
subversplat
writer of wrongs
How novel. Websites with ads on them. I feel like I am in 2005 again 
5t3IIa
Registered User
Those are google ads which are different.
paulhackett
voiced by strother martin
Ah ok.. sorry.. I was also thinking about the google ones as well, as well as the fb, twitter links etc at the bottom of the article
john x
Well-Known Member
No but they read the Guardian and I reckon it would not take too much pressure (threat of a boycott?) to lose her her job there.
john x
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure it's that clear-cut, although we don't neccessarily know much about Moir's personal motives or attitudes beyond merely what we can deduce by what she writes. I only point that out because I recall this article on the FWord a while ago about Jill Parkin who has also written some dubious articles herself in the Fail:
http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2009/04/female_journali_1
Whilst this doesn't excuse Moir's piece, I can't help but think that ultimately, it's all about the editorship. If journalists are in a tough market trying to earn a living, and the only way to get paid is by writing these sort of pieces, then that's probably what some journalists are going to do (which, IMO, is disgraceful and selling your soul if you don't believe what you write, but I accept it happens!).
Whilst Moir is the author of the piece and totally deserved of much of the criticism towards her, Dacre for me is still the primary villain in this. This sort of article is not new in his newspaper, although this particular article just really took it that one step too far and hence the outrage.
There's not been a bloody word from Dacre - not an apology, not a statement, and the article is still up there on the website - he's probably loving all the controversy. After all, Dacre will probably just not hire Moir again, but hey, that doesn't matter to him, there's thousands of hacks out there all prepared to write the same type of shit to keep up their mortgage repayments?
john x
Well-Known Member
Most journalists will do it, see no problem with it and happily admit to it. It is a job after all. Is it really any different to 'ad-men' writing their copy (which they can't believe in because they know it's not true.)?
With a few honourable exceptions, most journalists (certainly most tabloid journalists) don't give a shit what they write as long as it is on time and not libellous. They know that they are just writing to fill the gaps between the adverts.
To assume some kind of higher journalistic ideal is a mistake.
john x
THERE ARE NO ADS ON THE PAGE http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1220756/A-strange-lonely-troubling-death--.html AND IT WAS ALL OVER THE TV NEWS YESTERDAY THAT ADVERTISERS PULLED THEIR ADS.
That's not what happened at all. Pulling an ad is cancelling it. Nobody cancelled their ads. The Mail just moved the ads to other pages.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Apparently British Airways offer free copies of the Fail on their domestic flights - I wouldn't know, can't afford to travel BA!
Just stumbled upon a petition here via twitter to ask BA to stop doing so:
http://www.petitiononline.com/bastopdm/
Just stumbled upon a petition here via twitter to ask BA to stop doing so:
http://www.petitiononline.com/bastopdm/
john x
Well-Known Member
Yes they do. Mail and the Telegraph on international flights too.
I asked if they had anything 'more left wing' once and was stared at as if I had just beamed down from Mars!
Newspapers are primarily for business travellers and they make it to economy if there are any left. BA will not stop handing out copies of the Mail on their flights simply because their business class customers will complain.
Also the pressure from a boycott petition is very weak as most of the people signing it will not be flying BA business class (or threatening to withdraw their patronage)
BA is up shit creek financially and WILL NOT do anything to jeopardise one of the profitable areas of their business.
john x
john x
Well-Known Member
Believe me, you do.
I usually find the 'hard' suduko in the Mail adequate to pass the time on most short-haul flights. When not travelling business class I have to 'sweet talk' a member of cabin crew into 'saving' me a copy.john x
Read the Guardian article carefully www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oct/16/stephen-gately-boyzone. Especially this bit: "We have asked the Daily Mail to move our advert away from the article," said a spokesman for Marks & Spencer.
If advertisers had cancelled their ads there would have been big headlines with the word "CANCELLED" in them. The Guardian (which is trying to kick the Mail as hard as it can) says nothing stronger than "the paper was forced to withdraw advertising from part of its web site".
This belief that advertisers actually cancelled ads seems widespread. Poor reading skills, urbanz. Most unlike you to be so naive.
P.S. Don't be taken in by this subheading "Companies rush to pull advertising from website". That's just a cockup by a sub. There's nothing in the article to back it up.
I understand nick. h's scepticism but I think the idea that it the mail will see it as positive is overstated. At the very least it will have caused them a headache, and a lot of work - moving adverts, taking them down etc, reassuring the advertisers etc. I also don't think it's a simple case of Daily Mail readers v. liberals. As with when Gately originally came out, I think they've underestimated that he's generally well liked, so the article may well have jarred with its readership. They clearly have read the mood wrong, and for a paper like the Mail, that's a bad mistake.
But, if the fuss dies down they will get away with it, so keeping the pressure up matters.
But, if the fuss dies down they will get away with it, so keeping the pressure up matters.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Definately.
What you guys have done here is admirable and very well executed but I can't help but think that all this attention will encourage people who do not normally buy the DM to go out and purchase it and/or the Mail on Sunday to find out what all the fuss is about.
Increased sales = more money = more plaudits = handshake for Jan Moir (with a little note to cool it on the homophobia in future).
Very few of the 2 million everyday Mail readers will have got annoyed about this article (despite the upset on their comments column - am guessing less than 1% add their views online) so I guess the editors won't be that bothered about a load of free publicity.
The funeral takes place today so the papers will concentrate on that and relegate the Moir debate to a mention in a side box.
Maybe time to stop drawing attention to this?
I understand that it might not be the result people here are looking for but she ain't gonna get fired and more publicity will only feed the Mail's uptake as folks try to work out what is so controversial.
Thoughts (and probably flaming) appreciated.
ETA: Having said all of the above, I don't know how else it could have been handled or how it could have been handled better so well done to all those from here involved in this campaign response. If not now, you will get the right outcome in the end - maybe rather than keep going with this you could keep an eye on her and bring any future bullshit to the attention of the public.
This alone won't take her down, but maybe sustained protest about what will no doubt be more bile to spill form her mouth over a period of months will.
Good luck guys!!
Increased sales = more money = more plaudits = handshake for Jan Moir (with a little note to cool it on the homophobia in future).
Very few of the 2 million everyday Mail readers will have got annoyed about this article (despite the upset on their comments column - am guessing less than 1% add their views online) so I guess the editors won't be that bothered about a load of free publicity.
The funeral takes place today so the papers will concentrate on that and relegate the Moir debate to a mention in a side box.
Maybe time to stop drawing attention to this?
I understand that it might not be the result people here are looking for but she ain't gonna get fired and more publicity will only feed the Mail's uptake as folks try to work out what is so controversial.
Thoughts (and probably flaming) appreciated.
ETA: Having said all of the above, I don't know how else it could have been handled or how it could have been handled better so well done to all those from here involved in this campaign response. If not now, you will get the right outcome in the end - maybe rather than keep going with this you could keep an eye on her and bring any future bullshit to the attention of the public.
This alone won't take her down, but maybe sustained protest about what will no doubt be more bile to spill form her mouth over a period of months will.
Good luck guys!!
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
cover price is negligible compared to advertising revenue. And the adverts for Jans article got shifted.
trashpony
Hag
People are petitioning Downing Street, people are campaigning BA to withdraw it as a freebie. Some cabin crew have said they're going to leave it in the cupboard. Yes, the DM has always been vile and racist and homophobic but this article has pushed a lot of people over the edge into doing something. And they feel like they can. Which is good I think, even if it doesn't get them anywhere
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