gavman
pj slumpy
save your outrage for where it is merited
London SlutWalk - now *11th*June, 1pm Trafalgar Square
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save your outrage for where it is merited
gavman
pj slumpy
yes of course i am a rapist. just the reaction i'd expected
TruXta
tired
Point was you have no fucking leg to stand on as regards what is and isn't possible as regards rape, as presumable you haven't raped anyone nor been raped yourself. Bit thick today?q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Wow indeed, I understand your reaction, but from what you've put there, I have a totally different reading.
Are you sure?
Sounds like she was quite fucked up over her relationships with men, and was trying to use the sexual power that she had to use/manipulate them as she felt that was her only power.
Yup. That would fuck up your relationships with men right enough
Why was your first reaction revenge? Her revenge reaction reaction is quite understandable, and I can see why it may make her happy to have someone share it, but yours IMHO comes from a basis where women are considered commodities, and that "your" commodity has been previously spoilt. I'm not getting at you for your reaction, its common and socially encouraged, but a more helpful reaction would have been to see what could be done to help her heal.
Ever considered that having been in a powerless position in those circumstances she wanted to relive the trauma but with control?
Again thats evidence of a fucked up sexuality, and being gang raped is probably going to do that to you.
Are you sure?
and fwiw, re the partwaythroughchangingmindthing... 'no' means 'no, please get out NOW', even if you're about to come in her.
people who've experienced sexual abuse/assault may well be 'up for it' and then have to stop part way through if the trauma comes up in the middle of things. been there, done that.
people who've experienced sexual abuse/assault may well be 'up for it' and then have to stop part way through if the trauma comes up in the middle of things. been there, done that.
gavman
pj slumpy
although since you've brought up my experience of rape, let me flesh it out.
when i was at sixth form college i had the briefest if flings with another student. we were getting mildly jiggy with each other in one of the common rooms, and i suggested we go into the boys toilets together for more privacy. we did and were in there for about half an hour, didn't have sex but were snogging etc. we came out together and went back into the same common room where we remained draped over each other, her with her hands between my legs.
day over, went home, thought nothing of it.
the following day i was in college and went into the smoking room, she was there deep in conflab with two friends, but got up and left when i went in, accompanied by her friends. i thought this was strange and didn't understand why. went off to lessons.
halfway through my first lecture i was pulled out and taken to the vice chancellor's office. he said
'we've had an allegation of attempted rape against you'
my stomach did a somersault and i began to shake
what?
'apparently you forced ***** into the men's toilet and tried to rape her. i just want to hear your reaction before i inform the police'
i told him exactly what had happened, down to the names of all the people who had seen us in the common room, before and after. i told him that she had consented, been keen, and had been touching me sexually, in public, afterwards
he then got her in (privately, after talking to the others who were there) and put my version to her.
she accepted this was the truth.
it turned out that a friend of a friend had seen us coming out of the toilets together and was telling other girls that she was easy, a slut, whatever
she got together with her two friends and came up with the attempted rape
we both got letters sent home to our parents
so, my extensive personal experience of rape is two false accusations. if that makes me a potential rapist / misogynist, blame them
when i was at sixth form college i had the briefest if flings with another student. we were getting mildly jiggy with each other in one of the common rooms, and i suggested we go into the boys toilets together for more privacy. we did and were in there for about half an hour, didn't have sex but were snogging etc. we came out together and went back into the same common room where we remained draped over each other, her with her hands between my legs.
day over, went home, thought nothing of it.
the following day i was in college and went into the smoking room, she was there deep in conflab with two friends, but got up and left when i went in, accompanied by her friends. i thought this was strange and didn't understand why. went off to lessons.
halfway through my first lecture i was pulled out and taken to the vice chancellor's office. he said
'we've had an allegation of attempted rape against you'
my stomach did a somersault and i began to shake
what?
'apparently you forced ***** into the men's toilet and tried to rape her. i just want to hear your reaction before i inform the police'
i told him exactly what had happened, down to the names of all the people who had seen us in the common room, before and after. i told him that she had consented, been keen, and had been touching me sexually, in public, afterwards
he then got her in (privately, after talking to the others who were there) and put my version to her.
she accepted this was the truth.
it turned out that a friend of a friend had seen us coming out of the toilets together and was telling other girls that she was easy, a slut, whatever
she got together with her two friends and came up with the attempted rape
we both got letters sent home to our parents
so, my extensive personal experience of rape is two false accusations. if that makes me a potential rapist / misogynist, blame them
gavman
pj slumpy
see post 66. i was typing while you were hyperventilating
past caring
The Cathars were right
Keep telling yourself that, I'm sure it helps.
blame yourself. and then either educate yourself or crawl back into the primordial soup you came from.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Being a bit harsh on gav there, no? I can well imagine going out with someone like that to be a complete headfuck even if you did have some understanding and sympathy for why she was like that.
That said, gav, don't blame other people for how you are. No good can come from that.
That said, gav, don't blame other people for how you are. No good can come from that.
TruXta
tired
To the extent of not believing she was raped because it's not possible to dp-rape someone, and on top of that insinuating that woman who dress a certain way get what's coming to them?
sorry for the overthetopness - hotheaded typing. i don't think i've been quite as angry in a fairly long time. but really gav - i do think you need a fair bit of edumacating.
and as for the 'raped by two blokes and then having twoblokefantasies so it can't possibly have been raped' - going by that logic, should people who've been raped by one person never ever be able to have any kind of sexual fantasy??
and as for the 'raped by two blokes and then having twoblokefantasies so it can't possibly have been raped' - going by that logic, should people who've been raped by one person never ever be able to have any kind of sexual fantasy??
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Pretty mild, really, if that's your worst.
Rereading what gav wrote, I think querty, tufty and others are right - he needs to think about why her sexuality was so clearly fucked up. That kind of fuck up always has a story behind it, I think. Without wishing to sound too schmaltzy, it might do gav some good to forgive her so that he can move on.
gavman
pj slumpy
thank you for your considered response. i will try to do likewise.
firstly it wasn't a 'gang rape'. she met up with them for sex.
my 'revenge' response, well that goes quite deep for me.
i have never felt such an overwhelming desire to protect someone as i did with her. but equally i have never known someone as capable of looking after themselves, but who refused to do so.
all i can say is that on my first day at school as a nippper i was overcome with the desire to protect the girls from the boys who were chasing them. i don't know if there is some freudian stuff going on there but the desire to protect girls from men has never gone away; i once intervened in a drunken date rape scenario on a beach in australia. the girl's friends all took the piss out of me and called me 'dad', but we became friends afterwards
as to why i am so certain she was lying....you would need the benefits (?) of my experience to understand that, and i'm sure nothing i will say here will be enough to persuade people. it was an incredibly destructive relationship; as a recovering crack user she was unpredictable and incredibly violent. as an ex-public school type i believed that if a girl attacked you you just stood there and let her hit you until she calmed down. but she didn't calm down, and would regularly stick one on me mid-conversation. this does begin to grind you down....but not as much as her telling my friends and fellow collective members that i was the violent one.
this was the point that i started to feel like i was losing my mind.
this girl that i wanted to cherish love and protect, was not only abusing me physically but was now denying the deepest part of me, that i would never hurt her. it wasn't until she was witnessed punching me in the face by others that the tide began to turn.
my only logical explanation for all this was that she wanted to 'ride me into the manor'. we got together at just the time i was moving into haz manor, home of the exodus collective, with whom i had been involved for several years. she wanted to move in as well, but wasn't welcome.
so her strategy, having seen some of the domestic violence that took place and the collective's reaction to it, was to claim domestic abuse and distance herself from me. when this got short shrift she came back to me again. it was my weakness to take her back
going to the issue of sex and control, this girl was always in control. if she got you aroused, before you knew it she had you mounted and inside her with professional expertise. when she did her psycho bitch from hell routine halfway through sex she'd spit you out before you even knew something was up. before we got together she would be with a different man most days and claimed to have several stalkers. she was also the most dishonest person i have ever met.
thing is, i know where her abberrant sexual behaviour came from, and it wasn't about a lack of control. i knew her family. she was an incredibly spoilt jewish girl who had a her parents / granparents wrapped around her little finger, and her sexual behaviour was in order to manipulate them. as far as i could tell, she couldn't really tell the difference between a parental relationship and that between lovers. she loved to publicly tell stories about dangerous situation she got herself into, just to manipulate your feelings for her. there was no attendant trauma; these were her experiences that made her the cool, street smart cat she was
gavman
pj slumpy
what is behind the sexual manipulation? my theory
she was a premature baby, not expected to survive. throughout childhood she had bad asthma, still does...but smokes 20 fags / day
her parents used to sleep in shifts in case she had an attack. i believe that she only felt important when she was at the centre of some massive trauma or cause for concern- in fact i think that was the only way she knew how to live
she was a premature baby, not expected to survive. throughout childhood she had bad asthma, still does...but smokes 20 fags / day
her parents used to sleep in shifts in case she had an attack. i believe that she only felt important when she was at the centre of some massive trauma or cause for concern- in fact i think that was the only way she knew how to live
ooh! i was one of those babies too! only managed to develop asthma a couple of years ago though.
there's a whole attachment theory thing, which includes how much contact/love you had even in the first few months of your life. i was in an incubator for the first three/four months of mine... still picking stuff apart about me, let alone other people
Pretty mild, really, if that's your worst.
i was also making repeated growling/roaring noises. and had to run out of work to have a shower
http://manchesterpsychotherapy.net/transactional-analysis-theory/
gav, i'm going to step away from a bit and read your posts properly again later. thank you for being open, btw.
gavman
pj slumpy
wanted to say, regarding the specific sex act, the thing i don't believe is that
the people involved could do the thing involved to the person involved on this occasion, without the person involved consenting
(at least initially. i acccept that consent can be withdrawn at any stage, technically that may be rape, but it's not the same to me as someone being attacked out of the blue and wouldn't have made me want to find the people involved and act the avenger. i don't see it as a sex attack, just things getting out of hand, probably brought to a head as a result of the up / down coke / crack buzz the three of them were on)
i'm not going to demean this thread (or myself) any further with the specific reasons for my point of view regarding what happened.
you wouldn't think but i'm quite private about some things, enough to live with people thinking the worst of me
anyway, i wanted to apologise for threadjacking. gav out
the people involved could do the thing involved to the person involved on this occasion, without the person involved consenting
(at least initially. i acccept that consent can be withdrawn at any stage, technically that may be rape, but it's not the same to me as someone being attacked out of the blue and wouldn't have made me want to find the people involved and act the avenger. i don't see it as a sex attack, just things getting out of hand, probably brought to a head as a result of the up / down coke / crack buzz the three of them were on)
i'm not going to demean this thread (or myself) any further with the specific reasons for my point of view regarding what happened.
you wouldn't think but i'm quite private about some things, enough to live with people thinking the worst of me
anyway, i wanted to apologise for threadjacking. gav out
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
Well well well, I have a lot of male gay friends who go blank at the mention of anything to do with women's rights, marches, feminism blah blah, but guess what.... THEY have just invited me to Slutwalk on Facebook. 
Maybe this might be the one to break the barrier. It was over 30 years ago that I first joined a gay rights march in Sydney, long before the days of Mardi Gras or Gay Pride. Only a couple of hundred of us but we chased the cops and barricaded them into their station. I've always been disappointed that gay males are rarely seen to reciprocate the support they get from women.
Hmm, the only problem is my feet, walking or standing for a long time can be very painful. Perhaps I need to organise some palanquin bearers.
Maybe this might be the one to break the barrier. It was over 30 years ago that I first joined a gay rights march in Sydney, long before the days of Mardi Gras or Gay Pride. Only a couple of hundred of us but we chased the cops and barricaded them into their station. I've always been disappointed that gay males are rarely seen to reciprocate the support they get from women.
Hmm, the only problem is my feet, walking or standing for a long time can be very painful. Perhaps I need to organise some palanquin bearers.
gavman
pj slumpy
i don't respect promiscuous men. i think it would be a terrible shame for women to emulate the behaviour of the worst men, in the name of equality.
occasionally you do come across them, telling tales of how they've bedded women with the help of coke, but i think 'shallow tw@' and move quickly on. i don't think it's ok for men anymore than for women
e2a @mikemcc
occasionally you do come across them, telling tales of how they've bedded women with the help of coke, but i think 'shallow tw@' and move quickly on. i don't think it's ok for men anymore than for women
e2a @mikemcc
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
Yeah, we're all going to fuck the brains out of the male population in the name of feminism. Oh wait...
Well well well, I have a lot of male gay friends who go blank at the mention of anything to do with women's rights, marches, feminism blah blah, but guess what.... THEY have just invited me to Slutwalk on Facebook.
Maybe this might be the one to break the barrier. It was over 30 years ago that I first joined a gay rights march in Sydney, long before the days of Mardi Gras or Gay Pride. Only a couple of hundred of us but we chased the cops and barricaded them into their station. I've always been disappointed that gay males are rarely seen to reciprocate the support they get from women.
Hmm, the only problem is my feet, walking or standing for a long time can be very painful. Perhaps I need to organise some palanquin bearers.
EXCELLENT stuff
worst case scenario: plot a march with breaks - join it, leave it, rejoin it at any point... (and employ carriers
too)q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Date changed to 11th June, Glasgow and Edinburgh slutwalks on the 4th
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