toblerone3
Grrrrr
I thought you of all people might be interested!
London SlutWalk - now *11th*June, 1pm Trafalgar Square
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I thought you of all people might be interested!
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hiraethified
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Sorry, wrong end of the stick.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Rosamund Urwin was banging in the Standard yesterday about the name being iffy. On that basis I think it's a great name.
Shall I throw the first bun?
The copper was saying that women shouldn't dress like sluts* if they wish to avoid unwanted attention. It has been mentioned that women should be able to walk down the street naked and not be raped. And of course they should. Likewise I should be able to leave my front door open and not be burgled. In the real world perhaps some precautions are in order?
*bloke's obviously an arse using a term like that.
Shall I throw the first bun?
The copper was saying that women shouldn't dress like sluts* if they wish to avoid unwanted attention. It has been mentioned that women should be able to walk down the street naked and not be raped. And of course they should. Likewise I should be able to leave my front door open and not be burgled. In the real world perhaps some precautions are in order?
*bloke's obviously an arse using a term like that.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
I think the point is that a lot of sexual assault is down to power perverts getting off on controlling women. If women are having to choose their clothing based on the threat of assault then that is a further extension of men's power. By women stating that they will dress as sluts they are rejecting that attempt at control. Personally, I have no objection to that approach being taken either.
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
consumer135
Member
Seriously?
if the Guardian is to be believed this is all to do with comments made by a police officer in a lecture to law school students on the subject of personal safety. "Women," he told them, "should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised."
Notice that this is not a legal principle. Aside from the stupid choice of the word 'slut' this seems like sound advice. This is not the same as the judge which Attila the Stockbroker satirized with his poem Rather the protesters are trying to create a world where it is not seen as reasonable to give advice like walking through pecknam flashing an ipad it is probably a good way to get mugged. Sure you should be able to do it and it is not your fault in that ultimate moral responsibility lies with the perpetrator ... but if it can be reasonably be predicted that flashing a high value item increases your chances of being mugged then it can also be reasonably predicted that dressing sexily increases your chances of sexual assault. And saying so isn't a crime or an act of patriarchy.
Ok I get that there may be a broader principle at stake ... so it's about rejecting an attempt at control but its an inconsistant self interested objection. I can't help contrasting it with the reaction Terry Jones Qur'an burning. - does anyone remember anyone saying "Lets have a huge protest to support this guy because religious offence is never an excuse for murder"? Rather it seems like people tried to make him culpable in some way for the deaths of UN staff at the hands of religious nutters. Similarly I see that people in general including some feminist friends I have who I'm sure will be on the march who would not activity defend the right of people they are opposed to to do and say what they want without fear of any unlawful consequences. Rather they would protest about some silly police officer who phrased his well meaning advice badly.
if the Guardian is to be believed this is all to do with comments made by a police officer in a lecture to law school students on the subject of personal safety. "Women," he told them, "should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised."
Notice that this is not a legal principle. Aside from the stupid choice of the word 'slut' this seems like sound advice. This is not the same as the judge which Attila the Stockbroker satirized with his poem Rather the protesters are trying to create a world where it is not seen as reasonable to give advice like walking through pecknam flashing an ipad it is probably a good way to get mugged. Sure you should be able to do it and it is not your fault in that ultimate moral responsibility lies with the perpetrator ... but if it can be reasonably be predicted that flashing a high value item increases your chances of being mugged then it can also be reasonably predicted that dressing sexily increases your chances of sexual assault. And saying so isn't a crime or an act of patriarchy.
Ok I get that there may be a broader principle at stake ... so it's about rejecting an attempt at control but its an inconsistant self interested objection. I can't help contrasting it with the reaction Terry Jones Qur'an burning. - does anyone remember anyone saying "Lets have a huge protest to support this guy because religious offence is never an excuse for murder"? Rather it seems like people tried to make him culpable in some way for the deaths of UN staff at the hands of religious nutters. Similarly I see that people in general including some feminist friends I have who I'm sure will be on the march who would not activity defend the right of people they are opposed to to do and say what they want without fear of any unlawful consequences. Rather they would protest about some silly police officer who phrased his well meaning advice badly.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
Really? Thats a reasonable prediction is it, lets examine the premises for such a prediction...
1. There are rapists out there and they will pick on the most sexily dressed woman they can find?
Corrollary - All women dress in burkas and pick the most unattractive burka they can find so that they dont become the victims of these rapists
2. Men have so little self control that the sight of a sexily dressed woman turns them into rapists?
Corrollary - Women dress conservatively in the hope that men will not turn into rapists
3. Men think that if a woman is sexily dressed then they are available and consenting, despite any words and actions to the contrary.
Corrollary - Women dress how the fuck they want and give a clear and unambiguous message to society that consent isnt given by the action of wearing heels.
So which is it?
A. Dress like a slut and you are likely to become the victim of a rapist
B. Dress like a slut and you are likely to turn someone into a rapist
C Dress like a slut and you are asking for it, and it wasnt really rape anyway.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
Looking at some of the contributions to this thread it does look like there is a need for some kind of feminist march.
There is more to rape than taking an i-pod . If that was the case then once women turned a certain age they would no longer have to be concerned of the danger of rape- which is not the case.
There is more to rape than taking an i-pod . If that was the case then once women turned a certain age they would no longer have to be concerned of the danger of rape- which is not the case.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Agreed
consumer135
Member
And are any of these premises (when toned down and stated in terms of probability and increased tendencies within situations rather than as absolutes) untrue? See Tim Beneke's "Men On Rape"
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Dressing 'provocatively' a misnomer. Those who commit rape/sexual assault don't do it usually because the victim is giving the 'turn on' through their clothes (lack of), ffs.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
I think everyone knows that if you dress 'provocatively' you will get attention (if you are a man or a woman), some of it unwanted.
But to extrapolate that into 'you are more likely to get raped' just goes to show we still live in a very unequal world, especially as when a man dresses 'provocatively' he doesn't need to consider this as much as us women do. There's a massive difference between getting attention and being attacked for what you wear..
Having said that, people who wear clothes that are 'unusual' also get attacked, but usually beaten up, rather than raped, just for what they wear, and this happens to all genders...
But to extrapolate that into 'you are more likely to get raped' just goes to show we still live in a very unequal world, especially as when a man dresses 'provocatively' he doesn't need to consider this as much as us women do. There's a massive difference between getting attention and being attacked for what you wear..
Having said that, people who wear clothes that are 'unusual' also get attacked, but usually beaten up, rather than raped, just for what they wear, and this happens to all genders...
xes
F.O.A.D
Good fucking god i saw that, she came across as a right cuntoid. I was half expecting the other lady to reach over and slap the fuck out of her, to be honest. Made me wantt o go on this marhc in a pair of hotpants and a sexy bikini top with a sign saying "I really am asking for it"
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Yep.
Most situations I know of still where women are sexually assaulted/raped is when they are out having a quiet daytime walk in the local woods, or taking a shortcut via a quiet lane on the way home from work/a drink, etc. in as least 'provocative' clothes as - but regardless, clothes 'provocative' or otherwise should never become an apologist/blaming tool.
Must admit I haven't got much patience when it comes to this stuff. As per usual, it mostly becomes about blaming the woman/making her (partly) responsible for what is someone else's (usually men's misogynistic) actions.
Fwiw, i was wearing two-weeks-not-laundered work trousers (obviously teh sex), workboots (not the delicate kind), two chunky vest tops and a proper coverup jumper. For me, this march isn't just about clothes x will have a look at idiot louise later when i feel like raising my blood pressure 
QueenOfGoths
Fuck you Dave!
gavman
pj slumpy
my ex wanted power without responsibility.
dressed in a way that left nothing to the imagination, she would go out by herself with no money, knowing that she would get different blokes to pay for her drinks, drugs, club entrance and give her a lift home (if she didn't shag them).
she was manipulative and would often cause fights, getting off on the idea that blokes were fighting over her.
when i was first getting to know her she told me of the time she was raped by two blokes at the same time. my reaction was to want to get hold of the men in question and do harm to them. this made her very happy
however, after being with her for a few years my attitude changed.
firstly, having sex with two guys was something she fantasised about and wanted to do. this struck me as odd, since she had supposedly been the victim of a serious sexual assault along those lines.
secondly, she was the sort who could have a complete change of personality / attitude during sex. i mean get halfway through and then change her mind about doing it, midway through the act. i've never come across someone else like that.
i don't believe those blokes sexually assaulted her at all. i think she orchestrated the whole thing, but changed her mind halfway through and then concocted a version where she was not responsible
i believe that women should be able to dress how they like. but sometimes they dress to provoke a reaction and that reaction cannot be guaranteed to be one that they like.
personally i would never go out with another girl who dresses or acts like a slut- too much grief from other men. i don't want to have to bloody my knuckles just to go to a builder's merchant on a saturday morning, or worry about where she was going anytime we had a row
actually the whole experience was so traumatic i've remained single since. that's about 9 years now
you fucking muppet.
TruXta
tired
gavman
pj slumpy
why?
gavman
pj slumpy
bollocks. utter bollocks
TruXta
tired
Your extensive experience with rape is it, that leads you to such a firm verdict?
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