London Anarchist Bookfair 2022

[chilango]

i see you have no trouble with crude caricatures of people of whom you know nothing

No, none at all.

If I knew them I wouldn't need the crude caricatures!

 

[Pickman's model]

Tbh it's not that shocking a trajectory.

CW always had a populist streak. It also had a fondness for crude caricaturing regarding class. That was, in part, its appeal.

UKIP and the current wave of socially conservative populism also do this. Ditching the the position elements of class but keeping the cultural identity bits in a bid to pit "the people" against "the elite" (again often culturally defined).

It's a well trodden path of late. The likes of Paul Emberry (sp.?) and, yes, Lisa M are heading down it. How far along they are is important though.

It's strange perhaps how few people out of cw have followed this well trodden path.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think you could follow Paul's thinking and interests fairly easily if you followed his blog. He has deleted some posts on there now though. His previous and current positions both include a hostility to identity politics and liberals, for one. And in particular I think he was especially concerned about how these two failed to tackle Islamic extremism adequately.

I think if you add a pro-working class take on Brexit to the mix (with further disdain for the liberal left) and, I assume, the annoyances of trying to work in academia for a while, then I don't think it's that hard to understand.

I might be wrong, and I've only met the guy a couple of times in the noughties personally. As with Paul Embery there is a more cynical take which is that the money and clicks led them both in a particular direction, but Paul (ex-CW) was quite a talented guy imo and could have turned his hand to a bunch of different things.

That makes a lot of sense put like that (I have read bits of his blog a few years back).
But then there’s chalk and cheese stuff. Internationalism vs National isolationism. Horizontal mutual aid vs maintaining hierarchy. Etc.

 

[chilango]

It's strange perhaps how few people out of cw have followed this well trodden path.

That you know of.

I suspect plenty of it's periphery and (ex)audience have.

It wasn't the only current or direction within CW of course, but it was definitely there ime.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not to mention UKIP being a total fash magnet.

 

[chilango]

I wonder if CW in its heyday would be invited to today's version of the Bookfair?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

That makes a lot of sense put like that (I have read bits of his blog a few years back).
But then there’s chalk and cheese stuff. Internationalism vs National isolationism. Horizontal mutual aid vs maintaining hierarchy. Etc.

Yes that is a bit more tricky. I mean CW was always a very British form of anarchism I guess? I think there was a conscious effort in the early issues of the paper not to include accounts of strikes in Bolivia or whatever. And the cultural references - toffs, Dennis The Menace type stuff...

Again, it's total speculation but my guess is that once you've established that, say, opposition to Islamic extremisim is a priority, that might then lead you to reject "no borders" as a position.

I think chilango is right in that there are probably a few people from the ultra contrarian left who have ended up in the Spiked orbit, maybe just as readers though.

 

[TopCat]

i see you have no trouble with crude caricatures of people of whom you know nothing

Innit. Patronising rubbish.

 

[TopCat]

That you know of.

I suspect plenty of it's periphery and (ex)audience have.

It wasn't the only current or direction within CW of course, but it was definitely there ime.

Fucking wanker!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

This is now maturing into a proper book fair thread.

 

[chilango]

Fucking wanker!

How so?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Loads of ex-CW people are sound, I don't think that needs to be said?

This isn't about that.

 

[nogojones]

As one of the many working class people who crowdfunded the book, I’m bias.
But it really is an excellent read and the artwork is simply amazing.
Found it very inspirational as a documentation of an extremely strange time.

Welcome to the rest of the boards.

 

[TopCat]

How so?

Everything you wrote is I’ll informed bollocks.

 

[chilango]

Everything you wrote is I’ll informed bollocks.

Really? Which bit(s)?

I liked Class War. I was a reader for almost a decade. I sold the paper from time to time. Marched in its bloc. Handed out its leaflets, even attended a couple of meetings.

Its ability to blend razor sharp, politics, humour and - yes - a populist appeal was it's fucking strength. It was what set it apart from the rest of the left. It gave it a unique reach.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Really? Which bit(s)?

I liked Class War. I was a reader for almost a decade. I sold the paper from time to time. Marched in its bloc. Handed out its leaflets, even attended a couple of meetings.

Its ability to blend razor sharp, politics, humour and - yes - a populist appeal was it's fucking strength. It was what set it apart from the rest of the left. It gave it a unique reach.

I imagine it was the suggestion that others from CW trod the same path to UKIP that rankled.

 

[chilango]

That you know of.

I suspect plenty of it's periphery and (ex)audience have.

I imagine it was the suggestion that others from CW trod the same path to UKIP that rankled.

Probably worth re-reading what I actually said then.

Worth remembering just how popular UKIP actually got in w/c areas off the back of it's populist anti-elites message.

Given that Class War appealed, at its height, to the same audience (the angry w/c) with some shared elements - the lack of political correctness, the populist streak, the appeal to shared cultural identities...etc. it's hardly inconceivable that some, maybe plenty, of people who had been drawn to CW in their youth ended up drawn to UKIP in their middle age.

That's not a criticism of CW, it's an acknowledgement of UKIP's appeal and the power of such strategies.

I

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Probably worth re-reading what I actually said then.

Worth remembering just how popular UKIP actually got in w/c areas off the back of it's populist anti-elites message.

Given that Class War appealed, at its height, to the same audience (the angry w/c) with some shared elements - the lack of political correctness, the populist streak, the appeal to shared cultural identities...etc. it's hardly inconceivable that some, maybe plenty, of people who had been drawn to CW in their youth ended up drawn to UKIP in their middle age.

That's not a criticism of CW, it's an acknowledgement of UKIP's appeal and the power of such strategies.

I

Fair enough but we were discussing a member of CW, not an interested bystander.

 

[Red Sky]

if like paul out of class war she had moved to the right and joined ukip i could understand this 'she's picked her side' bit. but as i understand it she's continuing to push her politics using those as vehicles rather than adopting their politics. for me she's not put herself beyond the pale.

The crucial distinction between someone using channels like this to push their politics or perspective or sond

if like paul out of class war she had moved to the right and joined ukip i could understand this 'she's picked her side' bit. but as i understand it she's continuing to push her politics using those as vehicles rather than adopting their politics. for me she's not put herself beyond the pale.

I think the distinction between someone using channels like these to push an anarchist /left perspective and just someone shilling is whether or not they got paid by the Right

 

[LDC]

I think it's not unrelated to the topic that it's noticeable that a number of older punks (who CW as a wider social thing rather than the group itself overlapped with for sure) and slightly younger free party types (men mostly) have gone down the Covid conspiracy path, something that shares some similarities with the UKIP/EDL scene. The mix of justifiable anger and mistrust at an ill-defined elite/mainstream can very easily tip into something that's quite unpleasant, especially when people lose the social and political anchors that they probably had when younger.

And I'd say that's more a failure of the rest of the 'left' rather then CW or the free party scene specifically.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think the distinction between someone using channels like these to push an anarchist /left perspective and just someone shilling is whether or not they got paid by the Right

So basically the entirety of the mainstream media.
Given that is off bounds, and also book fair stalls are hard to come by it’s starting to look like the usual purist cul de sac informing nobody.

 

[Red Sky]

So basically the entirety of the mainstream media.
Given that is off bounds, and also book fair stalls are hard to come by it’s starting to look like the usual purist cul de sac informing nobody.

So basically the entirety of the mainstream media.
Given that is off bounds, and also book fair stalls are hard to come by it’s starting to look like the usual purist cul de sac informing nobody.

Not off bounds. Did Mick Lynch get paid for being on the telly?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Not off bounds. Did Mick Lynch get paid for being on the telly?

Mick Lynch has the financial support of a successful trade union (ironically, anarchism often criticises this style of top down organising).
Perhaps if the Anarchist movement wanted to ensure that Lisa McKenzie wasn't being paid by the right, they could have have paid for her not to be just like Mick Lynch?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'm also wondering whether Mick Lynch would even get a stall but I digress.

 

[LDC]

I'm also wondering whether Mick Lynch would even get a stall but I digress.

I mean I doubt he would want one. But tbh it would be entirely reasonable for the Anarchist Bookfair to turn down the RMT having a stall, them not being at all anarchist.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I mean I doubt he would want one. But tbh it would be entirely reasonable for the Anarchist Bookfair to turn down the RMT having a stall, them not being at all anarchist.

Apparently he was worthy of bringing into the debate about anarchists and the media. And maybe Anarchism can learn from that.

 

[The39thStep]

I mean I doubt he would want one. But tbh it would be entirely reasonable for the Anarchist Bookfair to turn down the RMT having a stall, them not being at all anarchist.

As in the role of the bookfair isn't to advance the cause of the working class , its there to advance the cause of the anarchists sort of entirely reasonable?

 

[hitmouse]

Does anyone else have any organisations that have never actually applied for bookfair stalls that we want to speculate about whether they'd qualify or not? Personally I'd be dead against English Heritage getting a stall.

 

[ska invita]

Womens Institute need to be brought into the fold

"Each individual WI is a separate organisation, run by and for its own members with a constitution agreed at national level but the possibility of local bye-laws."

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Does anyone else have any organisations that have never actually applied for bookfair stalls that we want to speculate about whether they'd qualify or not? Personally I'd be dead against English Heritage getting a stall.

I threw that in as a joke after it was given as some kind of comparison to McKenzie's TV appearances.