London Anarchist Bookfair 2022

[Rob Ray]

Explain how I’m wrong.

I have no interest in delving into the anarchist who's who for the sake of your craving for internet gossip.

 

[ska invita]

It isn’t difficult to ascertain, is it? The ones boycotting are doing so with political differences with the organisers but seemingly have no political differences with the new organisers.
Maybe there’s some kind of magic happening or, more likely, the culture wars warriors are steering anarchism away from its intended destination.

My assumption was people stepped up to fill the void.
A bunch of groups signed that open letter but can't see who from that letter are organising now.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I have no interest in delving into the anarchist who's who for the sake of your craving for internet gossip.

Because I’m correct.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Or news reports. That could be wrong.

The news media don't know who did them, and nor do plod

 

[Magnus McGinty]

My assumption was people stepped up to fill the void.
A bunch of groups signed that open letter but can't see who from that letter are organising now.

It doesn’t have to be those exact individuals or groups rather than a trend moving it towards a particular direction.

 

[Rob Ray]

Because I’m correct.

You aren't, and a grinning face isn't going to persuade me to do anything.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The news media don't know who did them, and nor do plod

Which answers my question.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You aren't, and a grinning face isn't going to persuade me to do anything.

I’m not trying to persuade you to do anything. But clearly people are more comfortable with the new organisers than the old and that comes with political baggage.

 

[Rob Ray]

Some people are, some aren't, that simply comes with the territory of a different group doing the thing. Your conclusions on what people's relationships stem from are incorrect.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Some people are, some aren't, that simply comes with the territory of a different group doing the thing. Your conclusions on where people's relationships stem from are incorrect.

Anyone announced a boycott yet? All I see is people being ‘disinclined’ book stalls. It was a coup.

 

[DaveCinzano]

 

[Rob Ray]

Anyone announced a boycott yet? All I see is people being ‘disinclined’ book stalls. It was a coup.

Have you considered that a new group of people who had seen the crap faced by the old Bookfair might have taken a lesson from it, for good or ill?

And no, it wasn't a coup. this would imply some sort of forcible takeover, whereas the original bookfair collective actually said they didn't want to do it as of the 2017 argument, leading to a gap in which no-one stepped up other than to do the fairly minimal Anarchist Festival in 2019. The current lot had intended to do one in 2020, were stymied by Covid, and held their first physical bookfair in 2021.

 

[LDC]

Anyone announced a boycott yet? All I see is people being ‘disinclined’ book stalls. It was a coup.

Steady on you drama queen. It's one person told, for reasons now explained (their connection to State and far right broadcasters) that they are able to come to the bookfair, as is their project, but they themselves can't have a stall. I admit it's a bit ramshackle but meh, this stuff often is, and banning her personally would be a whole can of rabid worms to open.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Have you considered that a new group of people who had seen the crap faced by the old Bookfair might have taken a lesson from it, for good or ill?

And no, it wasn't a coup. this would imply some sort of forcible takeover, whereas the original bookfair collective actually said they didn't want to do it as of the 2017 argument, leading to a gap in which no-one stepped up other than to do the fairly minimal Anarchist Festival in 2019. The current lot had intended to do one in 2020, were stymied by Covid, and held their first physical bookfair in 2021.

It’s almost a coup of anarchism of the identitarian culture war mob over what it’s supposed to be which is the direction of class struggle. I can’t see it any other way, sorry.

 

[LDC]

It’s almost a coup of anarchism of the identitarian culture war mob over what it’s supposed to be which is the direction of class struggle. I can’t see it any other way, sorry.

When did you last go to a Bookfair, and what anarchist groups and/or projects are you involved with? I really don't think it's quite as you (and the internet) makes out tbh.

 

[Rob Ray]

Ugh, please. The obsession with idpol from people who blame it for every ill of the movement is as bad as the liberals whose bad takes fuel it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Steady on you drama queen. It's one person told, for reasons now explained (their connection to State and far right broadcasters) that they are able to come to the bookfair, as is their project, but they themselves can't have a stall. I admit it's a bit ramshackle but meh, this stuff often is, and banning her personally would be a whole can of rabid worms to open.

I’ve listened to Lisa many times at the book fair and enjoyed what she has to say. So I don’t think it makes me a ‘Drama Queen’ that these new folk who nobody will name are calling the shots on her attendance.
Who are they btw?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

When did you last go to a Bookfair, and what anarchist groups and/or projects are you involved with? I really don't think it's quite as you (and the internet) makes out tbh.

I last went in 2017.

 

[smokedout]

I’m assuming that the new book fair crowd aren’t entirely unconnected from the ones ‘boycotting’ the previous organisers which encouraged them to cease organising it.
Not sure about others but I haven’t forgotten this fact.

I’m assuming - but I haven’t forgotten this fact.

Facts and assumptions are not the same thing.

 

[Rob Ray]

Who are they btw?

Alright calm down Man Who Was Thursday, you aren't getting names on a public forum ffs ...

 

[LDC]

I’ve listened to Lisa many times at the book fair and enjoyed what she has to say. So I don’t think it makes me a ‘Drama Queen’ that these new folk who nobody will name are calling the shots on her attendance.
Who are they btw?

I have no idea who they are. Lisa can still go to the Bookfair. I've not seen anyone else's group or project 'dis-invited' to this Bookfair (although there's still time...) and her thing has now been explained, and imo it has some pretty fair reasoning, even if it isn't something I'd do.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I’m assuming - but I haven’t forgotten this fact.

Facts and assumptions are not the same thing.

Almost as if nobody saw what happened and drew conclusions from it.

 

[smokedout]

Almost as if nobody saw what happened and drew conclusions from it.

Conclusions based on assumptions. Which were wrong.

 

[smokedout]

Almost as if nobody saw what happened and drew conclusions from it.

What you've actually done is decided on a narrative and are now trying to shape your assumptions to fit it.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Conclusions based on assumptions. Which were wrong.

I didn’t assume that the new book fair organisers took hold after the old ones threw the towel in.
I didn’t assume that they threw the towel in because groups put in letters of boycott.

Am I wrong?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

This is all public record. Even on here. Don’t call me a liar smokedout thanks.

 

[Rob Ray]

I didn’t assume that the new book fair organisers took hold after the old ones threw the towel in.
I didn’t assume that they threw the towel in because groups put in letters of boycott.

Am I wrong?

Yes. You assumed that the organisers of the current bookfair "took hold" as opposed to just "said they were putting on a bookfair" when no-one else was doing it. You assumed their motivations, their friendship and organising circles, and their methodology. Then you assumed it was alright to demand that comrades' identities be put onto a public forum without permission to satisfy your own curiosity.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yes. You assumed that the organisers of the current bookfair "took hold" as opposed to just "said they were putting on a bookfair" when no-one else was doing it. You assumed their motivations, their friendship and organising circles, and their methodology. Then you assumed it was alright to demand that comrades' identities be put onto a public forum without permission to satisfy your own curiosity.

Would be interesting to see whether comrades who started the new book fair had also put in letters of boycott to the old one but apparently we can’t be too transparent about these things so I apologise for my conspiracy theories.

 

[Rob Ray]

And when you aren't making assumptions, it's snide insinuations. All without evidence of any kind. And the reason you're demanding to be told what's happening, as though anyone needs to justify themselves to Judge Magnus, is because you're not active in any of it.

 

[smokedout]

I didn’t assume that the new book fair organisers took hold after the old ones threw the towel in.
I didn’t assume that they threw the towel in because groups put in letters of boycott.

Am I wrong?

No but so what. The only conclusions you can draw from that are that the old organisers threw the towel in because groups put in letters of boycott and three years later some new people decided to organise it. Anything else is speculation.