London Anarchist Bookfair 2022

[The39thStep]

The syndicalist end of the spectrum has been a driving force in unionising marginalised workers in the UK over the last 10 years.

The CP and the IS/SWP tradition of shop stewards committees and rank and file have as much claim to that 'end of the spectrum' as the anarchists. Probably more so as I cant recall members of either the CP or IS being anti trade union

 

[hitmouse]

Oh, and resistance to Home Office/UKVI/Border Force/whatever they're called raids is another one that (like all the best activity) involves far more people than just anarchists, but is a tactic that anarchists have taken part in, argued for, helped to spread and organise, etc.

 

[Rob Ray]

I’m in the RMT and definitely at the libertarian end of communism. I’m happy for a person to represent me who wipes out the interviewers like Lynch did. He isn’t giving us orders. We voted for it.

Big fan of Dempsey and Gordon though? And I've heard a few things about Lynch with didn't surprise me (I won't talk about it on here - anarchist I may be but I like to think I'm disciplined enough not to hand out easy scores for the enemy) but very much do fit the structural anarchist critique. Good figureheads are valuable things, don't get me wrong, but the critique is always there.

 

[The39thStep]

Big fan of Dempsey and Gordon though? And I've heard a few things about Lynch with didn't surprise me (I won't talk about it on here - anarchist I may be but I like to think I'm disciplined enough not to hand out easy scores for the enemy) but very much do fit the structural anarchist critique. Good figureheads are valuable things, don't get me wrong, but the critique is always there.

what is the structural critique that anarchists who aren't anti trade union have ?

 

[Rob Ray]

The CP and the IS/SWP tradition of shop stewards committees and rank and file have as much claim to that 'end of the spectrum' as the anarchists. Probably more so as I cant recall members of either the CP or IS being anti trade union

I'd say the opposite with the CP - they had closet members and/or the ear of leaders in most of the major unions through to probably the late 2000s/early 2010s when the SP made headway with the new generation. They had a lot of good (and a fair number of not very good) shop stewards but they weren't in any way into flat union structures. They're still very influential within the RMT, TSSA and various others.

 

[Rob Ray]

what is the structural critique that anarchists who aren't anti trade union have ?

The anarcho-syndicalist one.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Big fan of Dempsey and Gordon though? And I've heard a few things about Lynch with didn't surprise me (I won't talk about it on here - anarchist I may be but I like to think I'm disciplined enough not to hand out easy scores for the enemy) but very much do fit the structural anarchist critique. Good figureheads are valuable things, don't get me wrong, but the critique is always there.

I’m mates with some Tankies not unrelated to those you mention. Great pub conversations. I don’t see them as actual fascists. Anti-fascists becoming the fascist is a bit of a smear, if that’s what you mean.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Actually those I drink with aren’t Stalinist’s.

 

[Rob Ray]

I didn't describe them as such. I do think they're headbanging tankies using the RMT to push a pretty reactionary social agenda though. I certainly wouldn't want to be a trade unionist trying to defend values they'd dismiss as "woke bullshit" or whatnot who rubs up against them wielding positions of serious authority. Let alone their mate Hedley.

 

[nogojones]

The CP and the IS/SWP tradition of shop stewards committees and rank and file have as much claim to that 'end of the spectrum' as the anarchists. Probably more so as I cant recall members of either the CP or IS being anti trade union

Over the last 10 years or so was my proviso.

The SWP/SP and whichever members of the CP that haven't retired tend to be more firmly established in unionised industries and tend to rise to decent enough branch activists. It's the previously un-unionised workforces that the traditional unions tend to ignore that the syndicalist end of the spectrum have seemed to put their energies into: Cleaners; gig workers; warehousing; call centres; care; hospitality... Maybe it's reflective of the ages of the activists and the industries that they tend to end up in, or maybe its in part that the SWP/SP and whoever have become a little stale and are more comfortable and experienced in their own groove?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I didn't describe them as such. I do think they're headbanging tankies using the RMT to push a pretty reactionary social agenda though.

Mick Lynch?
I don’t know his politics tbh. I voted Hedley because he’s ex Red Action.

 

[Rob Ray]

No I don't think Lynch is tankie (if anything I heard he doesn't get along with the pro-CPB wing), he strikes me as self-consciously old-fashioned socialist. Worse things to be than that of course.

 

[Rob Ray]

Hedley would have been a mess just on his own merits afaics, let alone with his domestic abuse skeletons in the background - couldn't stop himself from trying to bully people on Facebook after a few beers for a start, which I couldn't see translating well to say, a wind-up interview with Piers Morgan.

 

[The39thStep]

Over the last 10 years or so was my proviso.

The SWP/SP and whichever members of the CP that haven't retired tend to be more firmly established in unionised industries and tend to rise to decent enough branch activists. It's the previously unionised workforces that the traditional unions tend to ignore that the syndicalist end of the spectrum have seemed to put their energies into: Cleaners; gig workers; warehousing; call centres; care; hospitality... Maybe it's reflective of the ages of the activists and the industries that they tend to end up in, or maybe its in part that the SWP/SP and whoever have become a little stale and are more comfortable and experienced in their own groove?

Yes of course , and i fully support the attempts to recruit , unionise and go for industrial action in those areas .My point was that this end of the spectrum can't be exclusively be claimed as part of some anarchist hinterland.

 

[The39thStep]

No I don't think Lynch is tankie (if anything I heard he doesn't get along with the pro-CPB wing), he strikes me as self-consciously old-fashioned socialist. Worse things to be than that of course.

He is Connolly/Larkin supporting syndicalist type

 

[Rob Ray]

Over the last 10 years or so was my proviso.

The SWP/SP and whichever members of the CP that haven't retired tend to be more firmly established in unionised industries and tend to rise to decent enough branch activists. It's the previously unionised workforces that the traditional unions tend to ignore that the syndicalist end of the spectrum have seemed to put their energies into: Cleaners; gig workers; warehousing; call centres; care; hospitality... Maybe it's reflective of the ages of the activists and the industries that they tend to end up in, or maybe its in part that the SWP/SP and whoever have become a little stale and are more comfortable and experienced in their own groove?

The mainstream unions have had no idea how to deal with the rise of the gig economy - I don't actually think it's their fault as such, their expertise in such things couldn't survive the 1980s-00s which mostly left an older membership in relatively stable employment who were able to weather the onslaught. They were always going struggle to adapt. I used to talk to tech workers about this stuff who'd find themselves put in with print worker branches because there was nowhere for them to go. Not surprising that the spontaneous creation of new unions took place in the absence of existing presence, some of which included anarchist organisers (who temperamentally tend to love anything new and grassroots) but the influence is often overstated, particularly over time.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Hedley would have been a mess just on his own merits afaics, let alone with his domestic abuse skeletons in the background - couldn't stop himself from trying to bully people on Facebook after a few beers for a start, which I couldn't see translating well to say, a wind-up interview with Piers Morgan.

Yeah I know he’s tainted by his history.
But he was the only contender I was aware of and that is because he also has a very different history of action.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Anti fascism is the hard of edge of protecting working class interests.
Book fairs not so much.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

And dare I say, book fairs seem to operate as the boss of thought not dissimilar to those they accuse.

 

[Carl Steele]

Here you go, fill your boots:

Monson wins with a KO for anarchism

This article came out of a talk given in Belfast by anarchist MMA fighter Jeff Monson in March 2009. The article first appeared in issue 1 of The Leveller.

libcom.org

Pretty sure that Monson is very much not an anarchist nowadays, another sign of the downwards turn or whatever you want to call it.

Only here could you mention anarchism and MMA in a post and be given an article about an anarchist MMA fighter An interesting guy though. Thanks for that hitmouse.

For some reason the article made me think of Dave Douglass who I met a few times during the Miners Strike. Douglass was a really good public speaker because he spoke in very concrete terms, managed to do without the jarring, incomprehensible jargon. Not sure if he called himself an anarchist but he was an IWW member and also a very nice guy.

 

[nogojones]

Yes of course , and i fully support the attempts to recruit , unionise and go for industrial action in those areas .My point was that this end of the spectrum can't be exclusively be claimed as part of some anarchist hinterland.

I did say a driving force, not the driving force

 

[Rob Ray]

Yeah Dave consider(s?) himself an anarchist though is plenty scathing about large parts of what it is atm (who isn't, I guess). He's fallen out with a lot of folks over the trans stuff and his views in favour of resurrecting the coal industry.

 

[Sue]

The mainstream unions have had no idea how to deal with the rise of the gig economy - I don't actually think it's their fault as such, their expertise in such things couldn't survive the 1980s-00s which mostly left an older membership in relatively stable employment who were able to weather the onslaught. They were always going struggle to adapt. I used to talk to tech workers about this stuff who'd find themselves put in with print worker branches because there was nowhere for them to go. Not surprising that the spontaneous creation of new unions took place in the absence of existing presence, some of which included anarchist organisers (who temperamentally tend to love anything new and grassroots) but the influence is often overstated, particularly over time.

I was a tech worker in a print union (there was actually a national branch for us, rather than a geographic one). They were pretty good and embraced the more mobile workforce pretty well. As well as organising v good training to make sure members kept up with tech skills.

(We were unrecognised too which again was reasonably common in that branch if pretty unheard of elsewhere in the union.)

 

[Carl Steele]

Yeah Dave consider(s?) himself an anarchist though is plenty scathing about large parts of what it is atm (who isn't, I guess). He's fallen out with a lot of folks over the trans stuff and his views in favour of resurrecting the coal industry.

What are his views on the trans stuff?

 

[Rob Ray]

Good to hear if headway's being made - I was hearing Unite had been pretty dreadful, while from seeing it first-hand the NUJ's been caught between some quite good reps and a membership based in the older outlets who got proper sneery about Internet Journalists.

 

[Rob Ray]

What are his views on the trans stuff?

Best not to get into it, not hard to find though.

 

[cloudyday]

I did say a driving force, not the driving force

trots don’t do nuance

 

[Red Sky]

Anti fascism is the hard of edge of protecting working class interests.
Book fairs not so much.

Know much about it?

 

[DaveCinzano]

I think you could follow Paul's thinking and interests fairly easily if you followed his blog. He has deleted some posts on there now though. His previous and current positions both include a hostility to identity politics and liberals, for one. And in particular I think he was especially concerned about how these two failed to tackle Islamic extremism adequately.

I think if you add a pro-working class take on Brexit to the mix (with further disdain for the liberal left) and, I assume, the annoyances of trying to work in academia for a while, then I don't think it's that hard to understand.

I might be wrong, and I've only met the guy a couple of times in the noughties personally. As with Paul Embery there is a more cynical take which is that the money and clicks led them both in a particular direction, but Paul (ex-CW) was quite a talented guy imo and could have turned his hand to a bunch of different things.

My dialogue with him was narrow in focus, and I found him to be sincere in his beliefs, and very knowledgeable in particular areas.

O I C

U R M T?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Yes, perhaps I should go to the bookfair.

Actually it's quite soothing to follow a dispute upon which you are unable to form an opinion. The most enjoyable parts of the Joe Rogan podcasts I've watched are when he talks about MMA because I know even less about MMA than I do about contemporary British anarchist groups.

And to be clear I'm not being dismissive of anarchism as a political movement historically, I'm quite sympathetic to some of the basic tenets of anarchism, it's just that I know nothing about modern groups.

I'm not sure the way to work through the trauma of years-long Sparting is to pitch up at Bookfair: The Next Generation