Liz Truss’s time is up
- Thread starter Dogsauce
- Start date
story
Changing the facts
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Seems unlikely
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think this is a bit of a tory myth, though, like the Republicans' Trump myth. Johnson won in 2019 in a particular set of circumstances, but he was very personally unpopular when he was ousted a few months ago and the tories were well behind in the polls at that time. I don't see that changing and I don't see Johnson winning the next GE. And I think most tory MPs don't see it either. Like Trump, he's very popular among a hard core, but widely despised outside it including by many on his own side.
story
Changing the facts
story
Changing the facts
That doesn't sound very generous or positive at all. I'd say it is definitely Scotland and Northern Ireland that are being held back in a failing Britain. I think it's sadly true that England will never fully examine itself until it's forced to, until it's left alone with itself, to finally realise how it got there.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
There was nothing democratic about the PM being elected by Tory members. In some ways an anointment by Tory MPs is more democratic as those MPs were elected in a general election. Tory members are just wankers who pay their subs. Pay-to-vote is not democracy.
story
Changing the facts
Well yeah. I said somewhere (during the Truss era) that I found it shocking that such a small number of votes put her in top spot. Not democracy.
I get what you say about a coronation by MPs is kinda more democratic but disagree. That GE was a long long time ago, in the before times.
Too many recent PMs are not being properly elected. May wasn’t elected. Truss wasn’t elected. This next one won’t be elected.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Oh sure, we're a long way past any kind of democratic mandate. But this summer's tory election campaign and vote were a complete mockery of democracy. A total disgrace. The system is supposed to be that you are elected on a manifesto and you are judged by that. In the past, this has been semi-formally recognised with the Lords refraining from objecting to manifesto pledges.
Those elected on that manifesto may choose to change the leader, but the tories nakedly dumped their manifesto in the summer with different candidates promising different legislative programmes. There should never be any kind of public contest for government for the sake of a restricted electorate.
Those elected on that manifesto may choose to change the leader, but the tories nakedly dumped their manifesto in the summer with different candidates promising different legislative programmes. There should never be any kind of public contest for government for the sake of a restricted electorate.
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
God help me, but Mad Nads Dorries actually speaks sense when she calls for a general election as the tories have lost their mandate. She just wants her Boris back, but she's stumbled upon a truth along her crazy path.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
I don't get why Sunak hasn't declared his interest, yet? They've (et Mordaunt) allowed for much media narrative to be all about Johnson in these early stages
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He doesn't have to say anything. He has the trump card that he predicted what would happen with Trussonomics. Makes sense to me that he doesn't say anything in public right now. Johnson is reported to be trying to reach out to him. So it's not really all about Johnson. Johnson himself thinks that it's quite a lot about Sunak.
story
Changing the facts
If a week is a long time in politics, the weekend following an abdication is more than enough time to sit back and enjoy what the tide washes up.
Sunak has the luxury of a full weekday tomorrow and then two clear days over the weekend to get his ducks in a row, should he want to. A busy time for sure but he’s holding a strong hand. He can afford to bide. No hurry, no worry.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
This is how Canada sees your politics.
It ends with this
It ends with this
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
Dignity…always dignity…
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Leaving aside the vomiting inducing idea of MPs as some sort of guardians of democracy - I don't get how this is consistent with the politics you claim you want.
CS favours this sort of 'parliamentary sovereignty' because it aligns with their liberal politics, it serves to block any Corbyn type candidate. Sensible Starmer vs sensible Sunk. But don't you want some sort of socialist/social democratic party? Raising MPs as experts who's decisions are sovereign leads to the sort of crap that Italy saw with the imposition of technocratic PMs.
And as for the mandate argument, how is that supposed to work with PR which you also want? PR will naturally tend to lead to coalition governments where parties are required to drop parts of their manifesto.
Indeed how does it work with MPs as the gatekeepers - if (in this case) tory MPs have lost their mandate by supporting a set of policies that was not in their last manifesto, why are they to be the arbiters of who should lead the party?
(Nevermind that mandate argument is not credible, people have never voted based solely on manifesto's)
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I'm not certain the membership would vote loon this time time. They tried that and look how well it went. Enough might have been burnt by the experience that the more "sensible" candidate would win this time. Still the party machine is going to try real hard to not have to put that to the test.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
If they were capable of evidence-based thinking, they wouldn't be tories.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I predict one of Mordaunt, Sunak and Johnson won’t run.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
There is that
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
I want to see which loon ignores the memo about the planned stitch-up and enters the contest, fucking the whole thing up.
andysays
Love and solidarity
The "planned stitch up" isn't about ensuring any particular candidate wins, it's about preventing anyone who can't get 100 MPs to nominate them actually enter the contest.
That in itself pretty much rules out any "loons", unless you're suggesting any of them can suddenly pull together significantly more supporters than they managed to attract a few months ago.
maomao
普費斯
From the July 2022 contest, first round votes for Truss + Badenoch + Braverman = 122. Should be enough to get someone swivel-eyed on the ballot if they manage to cooperate.
cupid_stunt
Merry fecking Christmas.
We went to the pub last night to celebrate, and I've got to say the Daily Star has played a blinder with their on running lettuce joke, everyone was talking about it, there was even a discussion as to if the lettuce could win against Larry the Downing Street cat. 
That last line ^^^ is brilliant.
Just to rub salt into the wounds, they even projected the lettuce onto the side of parliament last night.
That last line ^^^ is brilliant.
Just to rub salt into the wounds, they even projected the lettuce onto the side of parliament last night.
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