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Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

What has been shown on the tv has usually been available on the net for at least a day or two prior to it coming on the telly. To be expected given the absence of media in Libya.

I cant be sure but I dont think the average Libyan citizen had any arms prior to this uprising, but in various parts of the country either pro-government thugs have been armed by the rgime, or else people have helped themselves to police or military installations that have been overrun.

Im still holding out some hope that not too many citizens were bombed yesterday, considering communications to certain places have been working a bit for quite some hours now, there hasnt been so much news on this front as I might have expected if there had been multiple horrendous acts of aerial bombardment, but this could yet prove to be wishful thinking on my part.
 
DrRingDing said:
My Pakistani colleague is pretty underwhemled too, citing the same reasons.
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The they would be as wrong as BM's Turkish friend, and for the same reasons you idiot.

The USA and others will undoubtedly being doing all they can to secure their interests (and they may yet succeed), but to say that this 'is just the US Government re-arranging their puppets' is simplistic drivel; which is why I'm not surprised to see you parroting it.

Louis MacNeice
 
DrRingDing said:
My Pakistani colleague is pretty underwhemled too, citing the same reasons.
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Makes me wonder what use some revolutionaries would be in a revolutionary situation. Keep searching for your purity mate - you still in class war? Still doing the revolutionary tours of the pure asian maoists?
 
butchersapron said:
Makes me wonder what use some revolutionaries would be in a revolutionary situation. Keep searching for your purity mate - you still in class war? Still doing the revolutionary tours of the pure asian maoists?
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What on earth are you jibbering about? And WTF has that got to do with that post or even this thread?
 
Pretty clear - you can't recognise revolutionary actions when they're happening right in front of you, yet you are a member of a group called class war and fetishise guerrilla war at the same time. Useless.
 
butchersapron said:
Pretty clear - you can't recognise revolutionary actions when they're happening right in front of you, yet you are a member of a group called class war and fetishise guerrilla war at the same time. Useless.
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Fuck right off. Go back and read my posts again.

BTW macho swaggering like you're giving it hasn't been a trait in any of the real revolutionaries I've met.

Learn to lose the hubris.
 
DrRingDing said:
Fuck right off. Go back and read my posts again.
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To be fair, your dismissal of what's happening as "underwhelming" and a US staged event is rather insulting to the people of Libya, who are putting themselves at considerable risk in protesting against a man who has repeatedly shown himself capable of brutal methods. I don't know if I'd be as brave.
 
DrRingDing said:
Fuck right off. Go back and read my posts again.

BTW macho swaggering like you're giving it hasn't been a trait in any of the real revolutionaries I've met.

Learn to lose the hubris.
Click to expand...

He's absolutely right. You can't see a revolutionary situation when it is literally staring you in the face. After everything we have witnessed in Egypt. After all the incredible scenes we have watched, You can only see this as "The US merely rearranging puppets." what a joke you are
 
Freedom squabblers :rolleyes:

Anyways, this picture seems to be doing the rounds and it looks like the lighter-skin coloured blokes are invisible to some Libyans, they focus only on the men with darker skin in order to keep up with their hideously oversimplified mercenary narrative.

4l0to.jpg
 
elbows said:
Freedom squabblers :rolleyes:

Anyways, this picture seems to be doing the rounds and it looks like the lighter-skin coloured blokes are invisible to some Libyans, they focus only on the men with darker skin in order to keep up with their hideously oversimplified mercenary narrative.

4l0to.jpg
Click to expand...

I think you are right sadly. Worse than simplistic this "foreign mercenary narrative" is a very dangerous one too for thousands of black Libyans and innocent foreign workers too. It's not without precident. A little research shows a deep rooted racism in Libya.

In 2000, the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions issued a condemnation of “racist attacks on migrant workers” in Libya.2 Migrant workers from Ghana, Cameroon, Sudan, Niger, Burkina Faso, Chad and Nigeria were the victims of attacks by Libyans targeting black migrants, following a government-ordered crackdown on foreign employment, and state-sponsored news reports portraying African migrants as being involved in drug-trafficking or dealing in alcohol

Specifically on migrant workers, the Committee expressed deep concern about reported acts of violence in 2000 against migrant workers which led to the death of many persons. The Committee noted with regret that “no updated response was provided by [Libya] on the action taken to sanction those responsible and prevent the occurrence of such violence in the future.”3 The Committee also expressed its concern that, according to some reports, “thousands of African migrant workers [were] expelled since 2000.”4 The Committee felt it necessary to recommend to Libya to “ensure that foreign workers are not discriminated against in employment on the basis of their colour or their ethnic or national origin.”5 The
Committee expressed specific concern about evidence of “racially motivated acts against foreign workers.”
Click to expand...

http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1313923&ct=8411733

I think we should see claims of "foreign mercenaries in this context and should exercise a good degree of scepticism regarding such claims
 
butchersapron said:
I forget, did we ever get any solid info on if there are Russian mercenaries there? This was doing the rounds early yesterday.
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I dont think there is solid info about much at the moment. A few photos alleged to show the IDs of mercenaries have been doing the rounds for days, although at least one of them looked a bit suspect to me as the official stamp went underneath the mugshot instead of over it. I didnt see any russian ones.

Anybody found any older analysis of the makeup of the armed forces in Libya? And I dont just mean nationality, but general structure etc? The only news Ive seen for many hours involves the seemingly successful crackdown in Tripoli, I've heard nothing from other locations nor of the battles on the outskirts of Tripoli which many of the rumours of more than a day ago suggested were imminent. At this rate I am tempted to write off the picture that was emerging on Sunday night of a variety of military that were on the side of the people heading for Tripoli.
 
Oil situation update from the FT via the Guardian:

"The escalating violence in Libya kept oil prices elevated near 2½-year highs, with the Opec basket of crude oils – the most representative measure of physical oil prices – rising above $100 a barrel for the first time since the financial crisis.

Most oil ports and refineries have shut down in Libya, the world's 12th largest oil exporter, according to traders. At the same time, international oil companies were evacuating their staff from the country in a move that executives and analysts said would probably lead to a sharp drop in oil output.

"It feels like it's a matter of time," said James Zhang, energy analyst at Standard Bank in London. "If the situation continues it's going to spread to those production sites. I don't think the production in Libya is in tight control by the government or army as the Suez Canal by the Egyptian army."
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By the way a quick analysis of Libyan investment overseas that I briefly mentioned the other day said that the FT was one of the companies they had invested in.
 
Lemon Eddy said:
Example please. I honestly can't think of a person or political grouping that idolized Gadaffi.
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The WRP were rumoured to have received money from him. "Libyan gold" was the accusation as far as I recall and he famously sent guns and money to the IRA as well as to some of the 1970s "radical chic" terrorist groups like the RAF etc

On the right of course, Nick Griffin once idolised him and the NF gave out copies of his "green book"
 
A tweet which gives me further hope that the airplane bombing was more scare tactic than reality last night:

ChangeInLibya
Most of us libyans saw jets, but it seems like they weren't carpet bombing and bombarding, just a #gaddafi scare tactic. Need to confirm..
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By the way this twitter account is by one of the few Libyans speaking English on twitter that actually claims to be in Libya (Tripoli), as opposed to overseas.
 
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