Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[MellySingsDoom]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/uk-libya-britain-richards-idUKTRE74E16F20110516



cant be that many tanks or arms dumps left so i suppose it makes sense to blow up a few bridges, power stations, water treatment works and maybe a school or two.

Iraq part 2 - "saving" Libya by destroying it's infrastructure...

 

[ernestolynch]

Children in school = being used as human shields by the evil regime.

 

[Crispy]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/uk-libya-britain-richards-idUKTRE74E16F20110516



cant be that many tanks or arms dumps left so i suppose it makes sense to blow up a few bridges, power stations, water treatment works and maybe a school or two.

Anything that can be rebuilt at a profit afterwards.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

With borrowed money from the IMF

 

[Crispy]

Quite. "profit" isn't quite the right word. "anything that excuses creating more debt" might be better.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

It's being reported that Gadaffi's wife and daughter have entered Tunisia

 

[butchersapron]

Britain to send Apaches into Libya

Britain and France are to deploy attack helicopters against Libya in an attempt to break the military stalemate, particularly in the important coastal city of Misrata, security sources have told the Guardian.

In a significant escalation of the conflict, the Apaches – based on HMS Ocean – will join French helicopters in risky operations which reflect deepening frustration among British and French defence chiefs about their continuing inability to protect civilians.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

F*ck they are bring in attack Apache helicopters in get in and between building, bloodly hell they will be able to nuke the place....

 

[weltweit]

Apaches should do well ....

Could just do with some AC130 and A10 also and then there could be some results..

Oh, only the Yanks have them !!

 

[TomUS]

Good move for France & the UK to bring in choppers. Give the rebs some close air support & break the stalemate & get this thing over with. I was against Iraq but this is different seems to me. Gaddafi & his sons have got to go.

 

[London_Calling]

Yep, it's really effecting regime change protecting those civilians as per the UN Resolution/international law.

International policemen, that's us.

 

[DownwardDog]

Apaches should do well ....

The (W)AH-64 has a long logistics tail so the operational tempo they'll be able to maintain from the deck of The Big O will be almost nugatory compared to the myriad of other assets in theatre.

This is just the AAC attempting to show that the Apache is relevant and therefore protect it from the inevitable post-Afghan defence cuts. Look! We used it Libya!

 

[peterkro]

^^ Could you translate that please?

 

[kebabking]

The (W)AH-64 has a long logistics tail so the operational tempo they'll be able to maintain from the deck of The Big O will be almost nugatory compared to the myriad of other assets in theatre.

This is just the AAC attempting to show that the Apache is relevant and therefore protect it from the inevitable post-Afghan defence cuts. Look! We used it Libya!

coz the Crabs aren't guilty of doing exactly the same thing with Typhoon and its ancient PWII's!

you may well be right about the effect a handfull of AH-64's can have on a planet sized country like Libya, but it easy to argue that Apache, as a platform, is vastly more relevent to the current conflict state than a package of GR4/Typhoon/Sentinal turning up for an hour twice a day to plink tanks from 10,000ft and then sodding off back to Italy.

Apache is going to be a useful addition for three reasons - it can engage smaller, more 'collateral heavy' targets than Tornado and especially Typhoon due to the lower effects of its armament package, it can spend more time assessing a target because its going slower, and being based just offshore means that it will have a lower transit time vs total flying time, giving it more time on target and a faster response time to time sensitive targeting opportunities.

 

[elbows]

Not terribly convincing denials about the helicopters:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13528702

"It is an option we are considering and there is absolutely no sense in which it is true to say that we have kept Parliament in the dark about a decision."

The use of helicopters would not represent an escalation of the mission, he insisted, but only a "tactical shift" to improve the ability to strike moving targets more precisely.

 

[ernestolynch]

Good move for France & the UK to bring in choppers. Give the rebs some close air support & break the stalemate & get this thing over with. I was against Iraq but this is different seems to me. Gaddafi & his sons have got to go.

LOL Bless

 

[DownwardDog]

^^ Could you translate that please?

The Apache is by far the most sophisticated aircraft that the Army (an institution that shouldn't be trusted with anything more complicated than a Pattern 1853 Enfield Musket) has ever operated. It has a vast appetite for fuel (~1,500lbs/hr), spare parts and maintenance (~35 man hours of maintenance for every hour of flight). The idea that they are going to do anything militarily meaningful with three Apaches (at least two of which will be broken) from the deck of HMS Ocean (designed for 6 Lynxes) is ludicrous. The Army are doing it so they can add the imprimatur of blooded-in-combat and try, hopefully unsuccessfully, to save it from being chopped once we're finally run out of the 'stan for good.

 

[Streathamite]

I'd just like to say that I've gone from being ambiguous about the UN intervention, to being against it. There.

ditto - and no, that doesn't make me a Gaddafi groupie. if the Libyan masses have their revolution, that's one thing, but right now this is imperialism

 

[phildwyer]

I hope those who've changed their minds over Libya are prepared to extend their newfound skepticism to the "Arab Spring" as a whole. Iran last year, too.

 

[Streathamite]

a tiny North African country

Have you looked at a map recently? Tiny, Libya is not!

 

[Streathamite]

Does anyone else find it a tad hypocritical that Britain can take part in an embargo on another sovereign nation while at the same time making it illegal for British workers to take effective industrial action by banning mass picketing?

Hypocritical? HM(Tory)G? Well, I never!

 

[weltweit]

The Apache is by far the most sophisticated aircraft that the Army (an institution that shouldn't be trusted with anything more complicated than a Pattern 1853 Enfield Musket) has ever operated. It has a vast appetite for fuel (~1,500lbs/hr), spare parts and maintenance (~35 man hours of maintenance for every hour of flight). The idea that they are going to do anything militarily meaningful with three Apaches (at least two of which will be broken) from the deck of HMS Ocean (designed for 6 Lynxes) is ludicrous. The Army are doing it so they can add the imprimatur of blooded-in-combat and try, hopefully unsuccessfully, to save it from being chopped once we're finally run out of the 'stan for good.

Are they really planning to send just 3 ?

 

[Casually Red]

Apache is going to be a useful addition for three reasons - it can engage smaller, more 'collateral heavy' targets than Tornado and especially Typhoon due to the lower effects of its armament package, it can spend more time assessing a target because its going slower, and being based just offshore means that it will have a lower transit time vs total flying time, giving it more time on target and a faster response time to time sensitive targeting opportunities.

it can be shot down too

 

[DownwardDog]

Are they really planning to send just 3 ?

Three is the normal det. on the O. The ship isn't that big and each WAH-64 comes with a large amount of men and materiel.

Also, bear in the mind the Apache was never designed for seaborne operations so they probably want to minimise the number of airframes they trash by exposing them to the marine environment.

 

[weltweit]

Three is the normal det. on the O. The ship isn't that big and each WAH-64 comes with a large amount of men and materiel.

Does not sound as if they will make much of a contribution then. Shame.

Also, bear in the mind the Apache was never designed for seaborne operations so they probably want to minimise the number of airframes they trash by exposing them to the marine environment.

Oh, more downside !! :-(

 

[ernestolynch]

it can be shot down too

 

[ernestolynch]

I hope those who've changed their minds over Libya are prepared to extend their newfound skepticism to the "Arab Spring" as a whole. Iran last year, too.

They could just ask me for advice next time.

 

[dylans]

They could just ask me for advice next time.

Fuck off. They should ask mine. Some of us have been consistantly opposed to Western intervention in Libya without sucking Qaddafi's dick

 

[ernestolynch]

Fuck off. They should ask mine. Some of us have been consistantly opposed to Western intervention in Libya without sucking Qaddafi's dick

LOL. You're too long-winded and read like a fucking writer for the Observer Travel supplement.

 

[dylans]

LOL. You're too long-winded and read like a fucking writer for the Observer Travel supplement.

From you mr LOL I will take that as a compliment.