Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[ernestolynch]

Welt have you evidence for your speculation that 'Egypt has been supplying' the Benghazi army?

That might put the several hundred thousand Egyptian people living in Libya in a strange situation.

 

[rekil]

The Daily Mail is reporting that a night attack on Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli by Tornado GR4 aircraft was called off because there were there were many civilians and reporters at the scene. They go on to suggest special forces were watching the target and called for the strike to be called off.

It smelled like horsehit, a lie designed to illustrate what a great bunch of guys they are in the RAF. Carebears in the sky.

 

[newbie]

Carebears with a PR department. CNN were broadcasting live from the target, according to the AJE blog.

 

[weltweit]

Welt have you evidence for your speculation that 'Egypt has been supplying' the Benghazi army?

Can't remember where I saw it now, some news report or article on the web. Definately said that Egypt was supplying small arms to Benghazi with tacit approval of USA.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I think it was in the WSJ

 

[weltweit]

I think it was in the WSJ

wow Divisive Cotton, that is some memory you have


Egypt arming Libya rebels, Wall Street Journal reports
http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE72H0N120110318

LONDON, March 18 (Reuters) - Egypt's military has begun shipping arms over the border to Libyan rebels with Washington's knowledge, The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.

Quoting U.S. and Libyan rebel officials, the newspaper said the shipments were mostly of small arms such as assault rifles and ammunition.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

American F-15E Eagle found crashed.

 

[Idaho]

Welt have you evidence for your speculation that 'Egypt has been supplying' the Benghazi army?

That might put the several hundred thousand Egyptian people living in Libya in a strange situation.

You have to ask yourself Ernesto - what would Stalin do if he was any of the actors? Give us some scenarios with him as Gaddafi, him as the rebel leader, and him as Obama.

 

[kebabking]

American F-15E Eagle found crashed.

Sky are reporting that 'the pilot' ejected and is safe. problem however - the F-15E strike/interdiction aircraft has two crew, the F-15C air superiority fighter (also based at RAF Mildenhall) has a crew of one.

probably sloppy reporting - certainly i don't imagine a journalist could tell the difference between a crashed 'E' model and a crashed 'C' model, and a just-ejected pilot in the shock and confusion of having crashed and now in the hands of people, however friendly, he doesn't know, is unlikely to be overly forth-coming about exactly what aircraft he was flying.

E2A - US Africa Command conforming a USAF F-15E crashed in Libya, both crew ejected and are safe. reporting tech malfunction, not enemy action.

 

[magneze]

"An operation is under way to recover the second crewman." BBC

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Hmmm - Seems that there is heavy bombing of Gaddafi forces around Ajdabiya. With the rebel forces waiting outside to attack and retake the town. I think this will be repeated all the way along the coast despite the fact that the UN mission is a 'Humanitarian' one. Looks like this is more like air support for the rebels.

 

[Dillinger4]

First as a tragedy, then as farce.

 

[kebabking]

Hmmm - Seems that there is heavy bombing of Gaddafi forces around Ajdabiya. With the rebel forces waiting outside to attack and retake the town. I think this will be repeated all the way along the coast despite the fact that the UN mission is a 'Humanitarian' one. Looks like this is more like air support for the rebels.

its probably both at the same time - the Sir Humphey-esque elastic wording allows attacks on any threat (nature, severity and immediacy all undefined) to civilian population or civilian conurbations. within that its very easy to decide that any vestage of the Gaddafi regime or indeed any vestage of any military/paramilitary force is a potential threat to civilians.

obviously any loss of military capability for Gaddafi is not only a military win for the opposition, but a political/psychological win as well - the more it looks like his future is in doubt the less likely it is that those on the outer circles of his regime will fight to the maximum of there potential for him so as to play both sides of the street (very much like the way that his very expensive air force has completely failed to do the business for him - in straightforward combat power terms it should be able to stop any movement between opposition held towns, as well as beat the shit out of any opposition held site, yet it has completely failed to do so). the only explanation for that failure is that the Air Force - like the Army - decided to sit on the fence, make up some plausable excuse not to be able to attack their targets successfully (unservicability of aircraft, cloud cover, Surface to Air guns etc..) while tipping a wink to the opposition that 'we're on your side really'...

 

[London_Calling]

I'm behind the curve here; I presume for the purposes of the UN Resolution, no matter what they do or where they go the 'rebels' are civilians i.e. Clan Gaddafi's forces have to stand back and let them through to go wherever doing whatever, otherwise they are in breach and get bombed to fuck?

 

[likesfish]

civillian human shields yes don't bomb.
reporters fuck em if they are so stupid to report from an obvious bombing target tough shit. War correspondanst ego maniac vultures who belive they are indestructable and invaluable.

 

[likesfish]

the libyan airforce is old and probably far from effective.
soviet tanks and artillery could be operated effecticly by edl members.
but fast jets need lots of skill and lots and lots of practice plus lots of skilled techs to keep even the newest jet in the sky. Get old jets takes even more manpower to keep operational those sort of techs end up like hens teeth in arab militarys.
lots of farmers boys who can do basic soldering lots of officers who want to do cool stuff technically trained people who get high wages for doing unglamerous stuff thats what infidels are good for.
hence no need for air strikes against saudi technicans leave no more air force. If your are prepared to climb into a fast jet thats serviced by an unwilling tech your braver than me

 

[Casually Red]

iyad_elbaghdadi Iyad El-Baghdadi
My source asked me to "stand by". Now I can't sleep. But can you imagine if it's true? It could be as big as Hitler's.

!!!!

G suicide!!!!!! news in coming the big thing since Hilter!

yet more incessant horseshit from the western puppets in Benghazi . Now claiming that civilian casualties from airtrikes are actually ghadaffi digging up his victims and transporting them to bomb sites . Quite the government these fucks will make in whatever little bantustan their western sponsors try and carve out for them

 

[quimcunx]

yet more incessant horseshit from the western puppets in Benghazi . Now claiming that civilian casualties from airtrikes are actually ghadaffi digging up his victims and transporting them to bomb sites . Quite the government these fucks will make in whatever little bantustan their western sponsors try and carve out for them

What do you make of Gaddafi's ceasefire, CR?


Also lots more threads have been started on Libya the last few days including one asking who supports Gaddafi. It needs you.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...i-in-the-current-Libya-Crisis?highlight=libya

 

[weltweit]

On BBC R4 they are all still arguing about who has command and control of the operation, NATO, the European union, the USA... who ..

 

[Deareg]

On BBC R4 they are all still arguing about who has command and control of the operation, NATO, the European union, the USA... who ..

The yanks don't take orders from anyone, so you don't need to be Einstein to work this one out, just able to see through the bullshit and lies.

 

[weltweit]

The yanks don't take orders from anyone, so you don't need to be Einstein to work this one out, just able to see through the bullshit and lies.

But the yanks are apparently wanting to back away from this one, they feel they have done their bit and don't want to be seen as the leaders of the ongoing action.

 

[magneze]

So, it's unclear who is in charge and what the objective is. Even the Iraq conflict had answers to those ones.

 

[Deareg]

But the yanks are apparently wanting to back away from this one, they feel they have done their bit and don't want to be seen as the leaders of the ongoing action.

After all the lies that these people have continually told for years on end. How can you even for one second believe anything that they say?

 

[weltweit]

Libya costing Britain £3 million a day
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/libya-costing-britain-3-million-a-day-2249628.html

The cost to Britain of air action in Libya is running at around £3 million a day, defence experts said yesterday.

Based on the total amount spent on British air intervention in the Kosovo conflict, the Royal United Services Institute has calculated the cost to the tax payer of the Libyan campaign could reach £100 million within four to six weeks.
...

 

[weltweit]

After all the lies that these people have continually told for years on end. How can you even for one second believe anything that they say?

I agree, Gaddafi is a liar and cannot be trusted. Ceasefire? what ceasefire? Lockerbie Pan Am 103? Yvonne Fletcher?

 

[magneze]

According to R4 now. Only 32% of the population support the action. Yet something like over 90% of MPs voted for it. That's some fucked up representation there.

 

[Deareg]

I agree, Gaddafi is a liar and cannot be trusted. Ceasefire? what ceasefire? Lockerbie Pan Am 103? Yvonne Fletcher?

Don't change the subject after all the lies AND the attrocities how can you still believe anything that they say?

 

[weltweit]

Don't change the subject after all the lies AND the attrocities how can you still believe anything that they say?

Their statements on not wanting to lead this action seem plausible to me. It is not that they haven't got enough wars to fight at the moment. One more is probably too much. And they certainly don't want to get bogged down with this one.

 

[Hocus Eye.]

I agree, Gaddafi is a liar and cannot be trusted. Ceasefire? what ceasefire? Lockerbie Pan Am 103? Yvonne Fletcher?

I think Gadaffi was lying when he admitted to the Lockerbie bombing. He only signed up to that for political reasons, it allowed him to cease being an international pariah. Syria is much more likely to be the guilty country according to Robert Fisk.

 

[elbows]

Now claiming that civilian casualties from airtrikes are actually ghadaffi digging up his victims and transporting them to bomb sites .

They started claiming that well before any no-fly-zone airstrikes actually happened. And not so much that he would dig people up, but rather that he's had them on ice all this time.

The fog of war is thick in this conflict, and both sides have taken propaganda to absurd lengths.