Why the vitriol? I've expressed my admiration for much of what you wrote on the Egyptian thread, so I'm not happy to find myself disagreeing with you on this one. But I've expressed no antagonism as you seem to want to do.
Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement
- Thread starter ernestolynch
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Why the vitriol? I've expressed my admiration for much of what you wrote on the Egyptian thread, so I'm not happy to find myself disagreeing with you on this one. But I've expressed no antagonism as you seem to want to do.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I think interests coalesce to a degree. This is particularly true of Europe where they just blew years of rehabilitating gaddafi by backing the opposition only to watch them fail and find themselves facing a continued Gaddafi regime who was not exactly pleased with them. I think for Europe it was a case of having burnt their bridges and needing to finish the job.
As far as US power is concerned. The events of recent months have delivered a blow to Us geopolitical strategy in the region and left them somewhat floundering in trying to reformulate a response. Mubarak's fall being the most obvious one.
The loss of a stable client regime of 30 years is no small thing and has left all heads pondering the future of US relations with Egypt. In addition the US is set to pull out of Iraq at the end of the year (indeed it is interesting to note that the date of that pullout is now being debated in regard to postponing the pullout date) and Iranian influence is widely expected to fill the political vaccuum.
The single most important factor however is not Libya at all but Bahrain. Bahrain is the epicentre of the Saudi/Sunni Arab/Iranian/Shia Persian struggle for regional control and it is this that has the Saudis and other Gulf states pulling their hair out with panic. It is not a case of the US leaving the region, rather it is a case of the US geo/political strategy falling apart and a clear coherant strategy not yet emerging to replace it in the face of fast changing unpredictable events.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Funny you should mention that. The Syrian dictator said in the past that his regime was safe because his people agree with Syrian government foreign policy. Now obviously Syria is not a member of the 'sold out to the USA' club in the region, but I dont think thats enough to prevent their people from wanting to be a part of the arab awakening of 2011. The Guardian had something earlier that was an interesting initial look at some Syrian reactions to the Libyan 'no fly zone':
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I don't like being compared to idiots like jazz
At least Jazzz manages to keep his cool.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Fuck off
elbows
Well-Known Member
I was unsurprisingly saddened to see dylans response to your post, and thanks for the compliment by the way
But I will make the most of this opportunity, by saying how I have been surprised that I havent seen dylans in the Egypt thread recently, surprising to me because surely the revolution there is in a crucial phase, one where counter-revolutionary forces are hard at work, and I would have anticipated that there would be plenty that someone like dylans could say on matters there.
edited to clarify that Im not being sarcastic, I would appreciate his analysis of things there right now, but when it comes to Libya the intervention makes it likely that many of us will fall back to some rather tired old positions that are not so illuminating.
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
It's jazzz.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Interesting that you mention Syria because while I was looking at Arab opinion polls I noticed that Asad polled highest in terms of admiration by Arabs outside of Syria. Undoubtedly because of Syrian policy over Israel etc. Inside Syria of course is something else I am sure
http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/05/19/arab_public_opinion_in_2009
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
I posted that Libya was one of, if not the richest country in Africa, but thanks for clarifying.
Meanwhile, Muhannad Bensadik, a 21-year old Libyan-American medical student in Benghazi, who joined the armed struggle against Gaddafi’s forces was reportedly shot to death in fighting near Brega on Saturday, March 12.
Democracy Now! correspondent Anjali Kamat spoke to him by phone on March 10 while he was still in Brega. To listen to the interview click here:
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/20...enghazi_hear_his_interview_with_democracy_now
Deareg
Well-Known Member
That arch hypocrite Obama just said at a press conference in Chile, that Gaddafy was no longer a legitimate leader, When was he ever? And that they could not stand by while civilians were being killed. Tell that to the thousands of Palestinians who were butchered by Israel while that bastard stopped anyone from doing anything to stop the killing or the peoples of Bahrain, Egypt and Yemen.
And of all the places in the world to say it!
And of all the places in the world to say it!
xes
F.O.A.D
have a guess where BP are about to start drilling....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bp-to-start-drilling-off-libyan-coast-2035002.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bp-to-start-drilling-off-libyan-coast-2035002.html
free spirit
more tea vicar?
panarama on now is showing a lot of footage from the early days of the rebellion.
LOL
You sucker.
You sucker.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Apparently the possibility of dividing Libya into east (rebel) and west (Gaddafi) is not possible because too many resources are based in the west, gas, water and the suchlike. So it seems the rebels must take Tripoli and unite the country behind a new regime if they are to have a viable future.
This begs the question of whether the rebels are able to mount a counter attack against Gaddafi forces or if they will require training and arms to permit them to take that action. Security Council resolution 1973 does not include arming the rebels, there is no mandate for it and 1973 only covers action to prevent harm or injury to civilians, it does not include the UN Alliance coming into the war on the side of the rebels. Egypt has apparently been arming the rebels but only with assault rifles and ammunition, I wonder if the rebels are up to taking and keeping the whole country.
It also suggests perhaps that the action to support the no-fly zone may drag on for a long time. Apparently the Americans are looking to stand back at the moment and take a less prominent role, citing over-stretch. There seems debate about who will assume command of the no fly zone with a number of groups, including France thinking that it should not be NATO despite their capability to do this task. The risk is that the no-fly zone may drag on for months with resulting costs for the participants.
I do wonder how long the current Libyan civil war may run.
This begs the question of whether the rebels are able to mount a counter attack against Gaddafi forces or if they will require training and arms to permit them to take that action. Security Council resolution 1973 does not include arming the rebels, there is no mandate for it and 1973 only covers action to prevent harm or injury to civilians, it does not include the UN Alliance coming into the war on the side of the rebels. Egypt has apparently been arming the rebels but only with assault rifles and ammunition, I wonder if the rebels are up to taking and keeping the whole country.
It also suggests perhaps that the action to support the no-fly zone may drag on for a long time. Apparently the Americans are looking to stand back at the moment and take a less prominent role, citing over-stretch. There seems debate about who will assume command of the no fly zone with a number of groups, including France thinking that it should not be NATO despite their capability to do this task. The risk is that the no-fly zone may drag on for months with resulting costs for the participants.
I do wonder how long the current Libyan civil war may run.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
so their depiction of the start of the uprising in bengazi was false was it?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
One of the TV News reporters was in Tripoli near the base when the plane was supposed to have crashed, he said there was no such crash as he would have heard and seen it.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
I hope they chop the entire family tree down, and burn the stump, and salt the earth in which it grew.
Fuck Quaddafi.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
The Daily Mail is reporting that a night attack on Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli by Tornado GR4 aircraft was called off because there were there were many civilians and reporters at the scene. They go on to suggest special forces were watching the target and called for the strike to be called off. I wonder how many UK special forces there are on the ground. I noticed Cameron and Hague worded their answers very carefully in the house when asked about boots on the ground. All they would say was there will be no occupation force, they would not say that there would be absolutely no boots on the ground.
The special forces have been there for weeks locating all the targets for the tomahawks etc. Forward Air Controllers or something - gnarly dudes with beards and dish-dashes or whatever - if there's one place British special forces kick serious arse, it's N. Africa. Gaddafi is a dead man.
great minds, spy
(and fools seldom.. etc
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(and fools seldom.. etc
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