Libertarian Party Uk

[TomPaine]

Surely the very idea of human love is abhorrent to Objectivists since it requires some 'altruism' on the part of one or the other, or both.

No Ayn Rand would actually consider love for somebody to be a selfish act and she lays this out in one of her books (yes seriously!).

 

[nino_savatte]

No Ayn Rand would actually consider love for somebody to be a selfish act and she lays this out in one of her books (yes seriously!).

Would this be the Virtue of Selfishness by any chance? In the case of Rand, it was fine for her to do as she wanted but those around her had to follow a different set of rules. Ask Nathaniel Branden.

 

[nino_savatte]

From the link.

Really, nothing is hotter than an accomplished girl in a suit, as long as she is willing to settle down and have my children.

Jesus wept!

 

[TomPaine]

Would this be the Virtue of Selfishness by any chance? In the case of Rand, it was fine for her to do as she wanted but those around her had to follow a different set of rules. Ask Nathaniel Branden.

That's the one!

 

[Jeff Robinson]

"Hey baby, you know I'll always be my number 1".

 

[Mooncat]

 

[Rohen]

Since the piss taking commenced I've had a read through their website, and I think (going from their material at any rate) you may be wrong on some of the above.

For example read their monetary policy:
http://lpuk.org/pages/manifesto/economy/monetary-reform.php

They support a three tier currency system with free banking as a fundamental plank. That's a massive step away from the current model, and would allow local currencies, community banks/community money etc.

And with regards to defence:



Isn't that what the Swiss adhere to basically?

Yes We are virtually proposing a swiss style system

We now have a phone number that you can ring to find out more information 0845 299 7650 or to join or to donate.

Remember we are here to stamp out sleaze and unaccountability

LPUK Blog Join the LPUK- Stop the Rot http://tinyurl.com/cz59cf

 

[Rohen]

head up your shitty tory arse

Libertarians are not Tories Let me make that clear

http://thejournal.parker-joseph.co.uk/blog/_archives/2009/4/30/4169658.html

 

[Blagsta]

Libertarians are not Tories Let me make that clear

Not only are your politics shit, so are your IT skills.

 

[Rohen]

Yes well its late and Ive been up since 6 am

 

[Blagsta]

Had the person who drew that diagram been smoking crack?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I can't embed this fucker either. Still worth a peak though, for a laff like.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LWATvIMoP...8/NxusND5ZhUQ/s1600-h/Political+Compass+2.JPG

 

[DotCommunist]

what the suffering fuck do you peple think you are on about?

 

[nino_savatte]

Libertarians are not Tories Let me make that clear

http://thejournal.parker-joseph.co.uk/blog/_archives/2009/4/30/4169658.html

Alan Duncan claims to be a "libertarian". Are you saying that no such tendency exists within the Tory party?

 

[Rod Sleeves]

http://henrynorthlondon.blogspot.com/2009/05/documentary-they-didnt-want-you-to-see.html

Good to see this leading Libertarian Party member is also a feng shui consultant and Maddie conspiracyist. They seem like a sane and good looking bunch.

 

[cantsin]

http://henrynorthlondon.blogspot.com/2009/05/documentary-they-didnt-want-you-to-see.html

Good to see this leading Libertarian Party member is also a feng shui consultant and Maddie conspiracyist. They seem like a sane and good looking bunch.

yeah , definitely digging his Maddie theories on the blog, including :

"Either the police chief is right and she died accidentally or she must have struggled behind the sofa, and died there, would explain blood & death. Blood from either vaginal orifice, Semen or other traces from the man involved and therefore DNA."

= wild , disturbing conjecture of a horrific, psychco-sexual nature .

VOTE FOR YOU LOCAL NEIGHBOORHOOD LIBERTARIAN , HOORAY FOR HENRY , etc

 

[Knotted]

You're very naively missing the point. Which is - the term has been taken by these people and the meaning has been so distorted, in an Orwellian doublespeak way, to mean the opposite of what it originally meant and which has over 150 years of history behind it! It's this rewriting of history that annoys me.

But didn't anarchists do exactly this with the word 'liberty'. They changed the meaning from a fairly concrete family of concepts in bourgeois legal right into a vague communistic platitude. Of course anarchist platitudes are very lovely and noble and all but anarchist theory is full of doublespeak or at least the weird appropriation of perfectly innocent words. Sorry, but I'm with the right wing loonies on this one. I know what they mean when they say they are libertarians, I don't know what anarchists mean when they say they are libertarians.

Having said that, this bunch aren't libertarian in any sense. They're just economically very right wing.

 

[Blagsta]

But didn't anarchists do exactly this with the word 'liberty'. They changed the meaning from a fairly concrete family of concepts in bourgeois legal right into a vague communistic platitude. Of course anarchist platitudes are very lovely and noble and all but anarchist theory is full of doublespeak or at least the weird appropriation of perfectly innocent words. Sorry, but I'm with the right wing loonies on this one. I know what they mean when they say they are libertarians, I don't know what anarchists mean when they say they are libertarians.

Having said that, this bunch aren't libertarian in any sense. They're just economically very right wing.

Maybe you should read some anarchist theory then? The Anarchist FAQ published by AK Press is a good place to start.

hth

 

[Knotted]

Maybe you should read some anarchist theory then? The Anarchist FAQ published by AK Press is a good place to start.

hth

Read it. Confirms what I say. You read it now...


See?

 

[Blagsta]

I'm reading it at the moment. I think it explains quite clearly what anarchists mean by "libertarian". Which bits are you having difficulty with?

 

[DotCommunist]

Libertarians are not Tories Let me make that clear

http://thejournal.parker-joseph.co.uk/blog/_archives/2009/4/30/4169658.html

From what I can see, the Libertarian position doesn't even have the patronising humanist patrician elements of old toryism.

Freedom for the market is not freedom for the individual.

 

[Knotted]

I'm reading it at the moment. I think it explains quite clearly what anarchists mean by "libertarian". Which bits are you having difficulty with?

From FAQ:
LIBERTARIAN: one who believes in freedom of action and thought; one who believes in free will.

Compare with:
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

That's from the Libertarian Party of the US's platform.
http://www.lp.org/platform

They mean 'libertarian' in the same way that some anarchists (eg. the writers of the FAQ) do. Some anarchists (Bakunin, Kropotkin) tag on some fluffy stuff about the importance personal development as well.

 

[Blagsta]

From FAQ:
LIBERTARIAN: one who believes in freedom of action and thought; one who believes in free will.

Compare with:
As Libertarians, we seek a world of liberty; a world in which all individuals are sovereign over their own lives and no one is forced to sacrifice his or her values for the benefit of others.

That's from the Libertarian Party of the US's platform.
http://www.lp.org/platform

They mean 'libertarian' in the same way that some anarchists (eg. the writers of the FAQ) do. Some anarchists (Bakunin, Kropotkin) tag on some fluffy stuff about the importance personal development as well.

Some minimal quoting taken out of context is what is confusing you. Maybe read the whole thing?

 

[Knotted]

The difference between right wing libertarians and anarchists is that the former try to maximise liberty in the immediate whereas the latter have a long term strategy of communism. Neither is really coherent about what it means to maximise liberty.

 

[Blagsta]

The difference between right wing libertarians and anarchists is that the former try to maximise liberty in the immediate whereas the latter have a long term strategy of communism. Neither is really coherent about what it means to maximise liberty.

Ahhh, you're changing your argument now. You initially said

I'm with the right wing loonies on this one. I know what they mean when they say they are libertarians, I don't know what anarchists mean when they say they are libertarians.

Now you're saying they're both as wooly as each other!


btw, I completely disagree that right wing "libertarians" try to maximise immediate liberty. They don't, they actually argue for liberty for a minority, e.g. their strategy to privatise health services would restrict health care to people able to afford it. Also, your assertion that anarchists only have a long term plan is innaccurate, given the role of anarchists in immediate class struggle.

 

[DotCommunist]

The difference between right wing libertarians and anarchists is that the former try to maximise liberty in the immediate whereas the latter have a long term strategy of communism. Neither is really coherent about what it means to maximise liberty.

From what I have read right-wing 'libertarians' seem to think unfettered capital is the route to freedom, whereas a cursory view of history shows that unfettered capital leads to all sorts of slaveries

 

[Knotted]

Ahhh, you're changing your argument now. You initially said



Now you're saying they're both as wooly as each other!

Mmmm. No I'm being unfair to the right wing libertarians in that last post. Its so easy to do . They are incoherent when it comes to laws protecting liberty, but otherwise its perfectly clear what it is they're about.

btw, I completely disagree that right wing "libertarians" try to maximise immediate liberty. They don't, they actually argue for liberty for a minority, e.g. their strategy to privatise health services would restrict health care to people able to afford it. Also, your assertion that anarchists only have a long term plan is innaccurate, given the role of anarchists in immediate class struggle.

I think right wing libertarians maximise try to maximise liberty for everyone equally. Its only the rich who benefit from this. Liberty is a shitty thing.

Thankfully anarchists don't try to maximise liberty in the immediate. If they did then they would have no role in the class struggle.

 

[Knotted]

From what I have read right-wing 'libertarians' seem to think unfettered capital is the route to freedom, whereas a cursory view of history shows that unfettered capital leads to all sorts of slaveries

Not necessarily. Unfettered capitalism may lead to more slavery in the immediate but it may also lead to a more insecure capitalism. Modern capitalism needs to be regulated otherwise it would tend to monopoly and stagnation and revolution.

 

[Gmart]

Freedom for the market is not freedom for the individual.

If I want to sell something, I don't want to be TOLD what price I may sell it for - I will get the best price I can - as would anyone.

If anyone wishes to state EXACTLY what it is they don't like about Libertarianism, then please feel free.

 

[8ball]

Not necessarily. Unfettered capitalism may lead to more slavery in the immediate but it may also lead to a more insecure capitalism. Modern capitalism needs to be regulated otherwise it would tend to monopoly and stagnation and revolution.

Rather like building a whole, integrated organism entirely from cancer cells and having to keep messing with it the whole time to stop it imploding.