LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[InArduisFouette]

please see smokedout reply

see also the reference to the rhetoric of the right when trying to excuse their behaviours such as claiming that violence against muslims, those percieved to be muslim or those who associate with muslims is not racist in origin ...

 

[lazythursday]

I see where you're coming from and have some sympathy with that view especially in the light of the events in Gaza. But if a right wing government decided to embark on eliminating say Islam from society, by banning Mosques and Islamic dress, permitting, encouraging and legalising discrimination against Muslims in the workplace or in provision of goods and services, banning discussions of Islam in school and public institutions, etc then that could fall under the definition of genocide even if much more violent genocides were being committed elsewhere. And more importantly that's how more violent genocides often start - the mass murder comes when people refuse to sit back and be eliminated.

Also genocide refers to ethnic, religious and national groups and it's probably important to keep that distinction. I'm not sure there is a word yet to describe the elimination of a group based on gender identity or sexuality. But there are certainly those on the US conservative right who are seeking to eliminate LGBTQ people from society, and there are absolutely gender criticals here in the UK who are seeking to eliminate 'transgenderism' from society - and even those who are too squeamish to admit that are frequently heading in a direction where that would be the end result of what they are campaigning for.

That may not be technically genocidal, but it's akin to genocide I think, and certainly in some parts of the US may lead to more violent tactics as the rhetoric escalates and the initial attempts at elimination fail.

I'm not going to argue further about this, as I think we pretty much agree, but I'm just deeply uncomfortable about stretching the meaning of genocide too far. There has to be a word available to describe the level of horror that is being witnessed. It shouldn't be diluted.

I get that there are earlier stages to a process that ends in mass death, but I'm not sure where the line is crossed where that becomes genocide.

 

[smokedout]

I'm not going to argue further about this, as I think we pretty much agree, but I'm just deeply uncomfortable about stretching the meaning of genocide too far. There has to be a word available to describe the level of horror that is being witnessed. It shouldn't be diluted.

I get that there are earlier stages to a process that ends in mass death, but I'm not sure where the line is crossed where that becomes genocide.

I think my understanding is that it's about intent - if the aim is to eliminate a certain group of people from society based on ethnic, national or religious grounds that is genocidal (and akin to genocide if based on gender identity or sexuality). It doesn't matter how it is done so much as why it is done. But it feels poor taste to squabble about it given current events.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I think my understanding is that it's about intent - if the aim is to eliminate a certain group of people from society based on ethnic, national or religious grounds that is genocidal (and akin to genocide if based on gender identity or sexuality). It doesn't matter how it is done so much as why it is done. But it feels poor taste to squabble about it given current events.

exactly

 

[SpookyFrank]

Another one they were handing out

Spoiler: Shit leaflet

View attachment 411881View attachment 411882View attachment 411883

CHILDREN CANNOT CONSENT!!!

Can they consent to being indoctrinated into a religion though? Oh, they don't need to because that's the good kind of brainwashing isn't it.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Last bonkers bullshit leaflet they were giving out

Spoiler: Shit sick leaflet

View attachment 411886View attachment 411887

It's gone down from age four to age three I see.

That last one is even more clearly the work of a sex-obsessed weirdo than the other ones. It doesn't even try and make a point about anything, it's just a brain-vomit collage of weird shit.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I don’t agree that pushing children towards life changing medical procedures is ‘evidenced based care’.

You'll be pleased to know then that your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Humberto]

I think my understanding is that it's about intent - if the aim is to eliminate a certain group of people from society based on ethnic, national or religious grounds that is genocidal (and akin to genocide if based on gender identity or sexuality). It doesn't matter how it is done so much as why it is done. But it feels poor taste to squabble about it given current events.

I'm sympathetic, society often precedes on scapegoats. There's a need to 'conform or I will cut your throat.'

There's always a gumption, a difference, a not how it used to be.

These actually are on the side of less freedom. As if this hasn't been human society for the last 24,000 years or beyond if we're honest.

 

[Humberto]

I mean homosexuality and trans presentation goes back far into tribal, nomad, pre-history/the great majority of human history.

 

[Humberto]

I should stop now shouldn't I?

 

[GroovySunday]

I think that one of the reasons I try to avoid these threads is that it's become such an all-defining topic which has caused former friends and comrades to fall out and become bitterly opposed to each other. This isn't helped by certain prominent GCs being utterly unpleasant and unashamedly transphobic, as well as certain trans folk and trans allies demanding that anyone who has the mildest concern (or just plain ignorance) about an issue related to trans people is a TERF and therefore a fascist.

The right wingers "ah, but can you say what a woman is!" is nothing more than a political gotcha. Spymaster and others who want to make it about "what is or isn’t a woman" are playing into that. TRAs who also make it about that are not much better.

Ultimately, we can be anything we want to be genderwise, and be treated respectfully for it, rather than treated with cruelty or hatred. Likewise, expressing doubts about someone's biological sex does not make someone a fascist hater.

I'm not one for the liberal/extreme type of IdPol, but these are the words of someone who defends people's transphobia and defends and lies about what happened with an organisation with a transphobia problem.

On these threads for example :

ACG On-line Public Meeting on February 15th

Are you an anarchist but not a member of an anarchist organisation?

Are there any classic farces or the like where someone very unconvincingly pretends to be two different people? I'm sure there must be some, but can't really think of any off the top of my head.

www.urban75.net

You've got some neck Serge, and you're also a liar and an arsehole.

The reactions I've got to my posts about this on these forums (such as the thread about anarchists who aren't in anarchist organisations) says a lot about many of the people on these forums and that they will just make shit up to try and discredit others (especially someone like me who knows well what they are and can see through their bullshit). The sort of response I got from these people was not a surprise tho and is to be expected.

So I can't say I'm too inclined to spend alot of time on here anymore really.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's right. This is primarily about you.

 

[danny la rouge]

someone who defends people's transphobia

You’re going way over the line there. You know very well about Serge’s principled stance, so stop making a show of yourself.

Try for once to put a point of view across without it involving personal attacks on others. The dignified way is to say what you believe. The undignified way is to lash out at former comrades. It just makes you look bad.

 

[SpookyFrank]

So I can't say I'm too inclined to spend alot of time on here anymore really.

I can't say I'm disappointed.

Because my new year's resolution was to never lie to an idiot.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

So I can't say I'm too inclined to spend alot of time on here anymore really.

 

[Orang Utan]

a solipsistic anarchist, who’d of thunk it?

 

[editor]

So I can't say I'm too inclined to spend alot of time on here anymore really.

Let me make it easier for you. You're banned for 2 weeks,

 

[Puddy_Tat]

acting, or does it come naturally?

 

[GroovySunday]

Try for once to put a point of view across without it involving personal attacks on others. The dignified way is to say what you believe. The undignified way is to lash out at former comrades. It just makes you look bad.

I know you like to think you're Mr Rational, and ever so much the 'adult in the room'. But in reality you're just smug, pompous, patronising, very dull and rather pathetic. Aswell as being a thoroughly dishonest hypocrite.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I know you like to think you're Mr Rational, and ever so much the 'adult in the room'. But in reality you're just smug, pompous, patronising and very dull and rather pathetic.

Whereas you are just an unpleasant, tedious, moronic, fuckwit.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see AmateurAgitator/GroovySunday has received their second perma-ban. that has made my day.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I see AmateurAgitator/GroovySunday has received their second perma-ban. that has made my day.

What if he sneaks back in though, there's no way anyone will be able to spot him.

 

[Ax^]

this does not mean war

 

[Orang Utan]

this does not mean war

Think that was actually someone else!

 

[Ax^]

woops my bad


sorry to the spammer

 

[Orang Utan]

woops my bad :0

Also Count Cuckula

 

[Ax^]

to quick for me OT
my fault was posting whilst thinking i was replying to another thread

anyways he gone now all for the best

 

[danny la rouge]

I know you like to think you're Mr Rational, and ever so much the 'adult in the room'. But in reality you're just smug, pompous, patronising, very dull and rather pathetic. Aswell as being a thoroughly dishonest hypocrite.

 

[andysays]

What if he sneaks back in though, there's no way anyone will be able to spot him.

He won't come back himself, he'll have another autonomous individual from his affinity group do it.

 

[_Russ_]

I see AmateurAgitator/GroovySunday has received their second perma-ban. that has made my day.

Sad fucker