LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[redsquirrel]

This started with someone saying no one should be sacked for expressing their views in their own time away from work.

I disagreed in the case of fascists.

No fascist should be allowed to work in a school.

Right here and now we don't have workers councils to sort stuff out so IMHO fascists should be sacked if they work in schools or health (which was the original question in the post I answered).

I'm aware of the dangers of calling on the state to outlaw and ban groups which I said in my post...but that is not what I'm doing.

As for your other points about Rwanda... I have clearly said fascists...not those opposed to immigration...I don't equate anyone with fascists other than fascists.

Quite surprised saying that fascists should be not allowed to work in education or health is worth arguing with tbh

But one can't just draw a nice line around what you are advocating and say that there are not implications, actions and reactions when bosses and the state are given that power. For a start fascist is not a clear cut category, and you arguing it is justified in the case of fascists because they don't believe in equality and are a danger - but that could, indeed has, been applied to other groups.

The point is not whether we want fascists working in education, health or any public service but how we obtain that. I don't think giving employers more tools to attack workers is a good option, we need to make it more difficult for bosses to fire people not easier. And workers councils might be some distance away but we can empower ourselves here and now by organising together.

 

[smokedout]

.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The point is not whether we want fascists working in education, health or any public service but how we obtain that. I don't think giving employers more tools to attack workers is a good option, we need to make it more difficult for bosses to fire people not easier. And workers councils might be some distance away but we can empower ourselves here and now by organising together.

I can guarantee that any worker's council of educators would make the exact same decision about whether or not that vicious ghoul should be allowed to work with children.

 

[brogdale]

But one can't just draw a nice line around what you are advocating and say that there are not implications, actions and reactions when bosses and the state are given that power. For a start fascist is not a clear cut category, and you arguing it is justified in the case of fascists because they don't believe in equality and are a danger - but that could, indeed has, been applied to other groups.

The point is not whether we want fascists working in education, health or any public service but how we obtain that. I don't think giving employers more tools to attack workers is a good option, we need to make it more difficult for bosses to fire people not easier. And workers councils might be some distance away but we can empower ourselves here and now by organising together.

Difficult to argue with your aspirations for economic democracy, but thinking about the case being discussed, I really don’t think there’s any need to give employers more tools to attack workers. Higgs has been sacked using already existing power and the legality of their action is being tested in the courts.

Workers councils or not, some individuals harbour such prejudice that they are unfit to work in person-facing roles dependent on universal access. And, like SpookyFrank says, I’m sure that any education based workers council would come to the same decision; if an individual’s supernatural or political beliefs undermine universal delivery of the service, they have no place doing the job.

 

[comrade spurski]

But one can't just draw a nice line around what you are advocating and say that there are not implications, actions and reactions when bosses and the state are given that power. For a start fascist is not a clear cut category, and you arguing it is justified in the case of fascists because they don't believe in equality and are a danger - but that could, indeed has, been applied to other groups.

The point is not whether we want fascists working in education, health or any public service but how we obtain that. I don't think giving employers more tools to attack workers is a good option, we need to make it more difficult for bosses to fire people not easier. And workers councils might be some distance away but we can empower ourselves here and now by organising together.

I ain't argued for more powers to be given to anyone...they can be sacked within existing powers.
Also when someone is wrong lying sacked or disciplined they can and should be supported by fellow workers/union members...we wouldn't support a nazi.
Genuinely think you are over thinking my original post.
But I guess we ain't gonna agree

 

[GroovySunday]

I upset Smokedout and Jenna last night which wasn't my intention and I regret. Apologies both.

This is such a load of dishonest bollocks. The likes of yourself and Magnus McGinty have got what you wanted, more trans people pushed away from these forums.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

got what you wanted, more trans people pushed away from these forums.

Oh just stop with this bollocks.

Neither of those posters wants that. At all.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Oh just stop with this bollocks.

Neither of those posters wants that. At all.

you are, quite frankly, suffering from rectal - oral inversion in that regard. Spymaster has been overtly transphobic in their posts on a repeated basis and continues to speak over women both cisgender and transgender on this topic

 

[ouirdeaux]

Jesus fuck what is it with this topic that makes people's brains drain out?

 

[8ball]

Jesus fuck what is it with this topic that makes people's brains drain out?

Rectal-oral inversion?

(I don’t know what that is, but I had norovirus last week and it wasn’t good)

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Rectal-oral inversion?

technical term for talking out of your* arse?

* - not your as in you, if you see what i mean.

(I don’t know what that is, but I had norovirus last week and it wasn’t good)

hope you're on the mend

 

[Epona]

Oh just stop with this bollocks.

Neither of those posters wants that. At all.

What the everloving fuck was the point of this thread over the last few days then?

Because I guarantee you that as trans people represent such a small percentage of the population overall, trans issues have a 99.99% likelihood of never ever affecting a cis person in any way whatsoever, so what is the fucking fascination for some of the cis population in the media and on these boards with the subject???

 

[Humberto]

As far as I can tell they think some hypothetical herbert will at some point pretend to be trans to gain access to woman and girl only spaces.

 

[8ball]

What the everloving fuck was the point of this thread over the last few days then?

Because I guarantee you that as trans people represent such a small percentage of the population overall, trans issues have a 99.99% likelihood of never ever affecting a cis person in any way whatsoever, so what is the fucking fascination for some of the cis population in the media and on these boards with the subject???

Gonna guess that a lot of people on this site have espoused political philosophies that involve guaranteeing the rights of minorities, and this happens to be a point of current disagreement.

 

[Epona]

As far as I can tell they think some hypothetical herbert will at some point pretend to be trans to gain access to woman and girl only spaces.

And it's bullshit on a conspiraloon level, imagining monsters where they don't exist.
Thanks for your support, it's appreciated.

 

[Epona]

Gonna guess that a lot of people on this site have espoused political philosophies that involve guaranteeing the rights of minorities, and this happens to be a point of current disagreement.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the point you're making, that might be an issue with me and that I have misunderstood.

 

[8ball]

 

[Orang Utan]

I suspect Spy and Magnus just treat all discussion of contentious subjects on here as sport. Which is massively problematic.
But I don’t believe they want to erase trans folk at all.
Trouble is, intent is trumped by effect. And they’re either too self-absorbed or stupid to realise this.

 

[Epona]

If all this bile is about standards in athletics then you all are very very sad thinking it personally affects you.
Because you all are not in line to get a fucking record or medal in anything.
This is something for the athletics judging committees to sort out about athletics judging and scoring and I bet it doesn't personally affect a single fucking person here at all, cis or trans (it's the 0.01% where it might make a difference, and you're not part of that world no matter how much you would like to be, if anyone here feels that their place in the Olympics was taken by a trans person then some of you are a lot younger than I thought or quite frankly delusional).
Complete diversion, and if anyone is using that as a reason to hate or deny trans people then you are a fucking fantasist.

 

[8ball]

If all this bile is about standards in athletics then you all are very very sad thinking it personally affects you.
Because you all are not in line to get a fucking record in anything.

Certainly not in my case. I was just giving another reason why cis people may have an interest in this discussion.

And there’s no bile on my part at all, I couldn’t personally give that much of a fuck about sports. I was just answering your question.

 

[Humberto]

By posting a Rogan video?

 

[Orang Utan]

Certainly not in my case. I was just giving another reason why cis people may have an interest in this discussion.

And there’s no bile on my part at all, I couldn’t personally give that much of a fuck about sports. I was just answering your question.

Is that what the Joe Rogan video is about?
This thread is mental

 

[8ball]

By posting a Rogan video?

Yeah, it gives the information you need. I could pick another video. The Rogan one is quite short.

 

[Humberto]

Yeah, it gives the information you need. I could pick another video.

An associate of all kinds of wind bags, hucksters and nasty people. I'll skip that.

 

[Epona]

Yeah, it gives the information you need. I could pick another video. The Rogan one is quite short.

I'm sorry that you feel you might have been up against a trans athlete in your next appearance for your team.

 

[Epona]

And Rogan is a fucking waste of space.

 

[8ball]

I'm sorry that you feel you might have been up against a trans athlete in your next appearance for your team.

That was an explanation why cis people are involved. 50% of them.

If you think Zuby deserves the female deadlift record, that’s your bag.

 

[Humberto]

'Hey he even has a liberal on from time to time'. That's how out there he is.

 

[8ball]

I'm sorry that you feel you might have been up against a trans athlete in your next appearance for your team.

I guess this is the standard play when encountering posts by uppity cis women.

 

[Humberto]

Trust a man that says you can be shot and eaten by dogs.