LGBT in schools vs religious parents
- Thread starter Anton
- Start date
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
So to take Anton at face value once more, I support the British Humanist Association and National Secular Society and their efforts to ensure that schools prepare children for a life in a diverse society as well as teaching them the usual stuff.
Some things cannot be optional and that includes sex education and an understanding of (if not agreement with) different belief systems and sexualities.
If Anton had been on Urban75 at the time he was a member of Respect he would have seen a whole bunch of people criticising them for not dealing with this stuff adequately and I'd be interested to know how vocal he was at the time as a member.
Some things cannot be optional and that includes sex education and an understanding of (if not agreement with) different belief systems and sexualities.
If Anton had been on Urban75 at the time he was a member of Respect he would have seen a whole bunch of people criticising them for not dealing with this stuff adequately and I'd be interested to know how vocal he was at the time as a member.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
OK
as long as we can also ban any reference to 'normal' relationships, fairy* stories involving princes and princesses and anything about getting married (to a person of the opposite sex) and living happily ever after, and any expectations of 'traditional' gender roles until kids are old enough to deal with them
* - obviously not stories involving any fairies that is.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
most people who were in the ruc prefer to draw a veil, as it were, over their time in that execrable organisation: few indeed are the people who have the brazen neck to bring up their involvement without a blush
eoin_k
Lawyer's fees, beetroot and music
Isn't it reassuring to think that however they turn out, working through this for themselves might be easier, less fraught, perhaps even nicer and a bit more fun because their earliest memories include the class mates with two mums, the gay guy who never talked down to them at a party and that kid at school who was working out their own gender identity without encountering the sort of violence that would have been inevitable even a generation ago.
ETA: And the muslim teaching assistant who didn't seem to have a problem with treating people like people, either.
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Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
You are a bit ridiculous aren't you andysays ?
You think there's an equivalence between me trying to maintain my freedom of movement by staying an EU citizen, and these Jews trying to maintain their institutional homophobia all the better to continue abusing children with archaic, discredited and abusive hatred of LGBT people, including children, including their children?
Really?
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
andysays
Love and solidarity
"these Jews"...You are a bit ridiculous aren't you andysays ?
You think there's an equivalence between me trying to maintain my freedom of movement by staying an EU citizen, and these Jews trying to maintain their institutional homophobia all the better to continue abusing children with archaic, discredited and abusive hatred of LGBT people, including children, including their children?
Really?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Sure, I can see why he wears a mask now the damn thing's slipped
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
Do you suspect they'll be comparing lubes and giving instructions to kids on the best way to fuck arse?
Children see positive representations of heterosexual partnerships every day of their lives, from birth onwards. This guidance amounts to something like "Some families have two mums or two dads - and that is OK."
The idea of being any more explicit than that is a perversion entirely born of your own homophobic mind.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
I see you won't answer the question.
They are Jews, yes. And they are a specific kind of Jew belonging to an orthodox sect. So yes, I refer to not all Jews, but THESE JEWS.
If you want to suggest I'm anti-Semitic, why don't you just accuse me of that and we can go? Your cowardly intimations show you for the intellectual pigmy you are.
sunnysidedown
caput mortuum
"THESE JEWS" ...
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
You can't really ban parents from opting out though can you? What about those parents who by their choice have children who opt out of religious education? Shouldn't parents have a right to not have their children indoctrinated into sky pixie brainwashing? You're on a rocky road to ruin I think if you try to prevent parents having a choice in what their children are taught in relation to relationships just as you would be if you you applied the same lack of rights to religious teaching.
Don't get me wrong I'm right with you all the way on the principal of the matter here but you can't stop people having a say in how their children are taught about things that as a parent are important to you as the person who brought them into this world.
Try being an atheist with three children who've been through state schools taught by Christian middle class teachers
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
These Jewish religious bigots?
These indoctrinated Jewish homophobes?
These Jewish abusers of children?
Take your pick, clownface.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Everyone has seen you've already been accused of being an anti-semite
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
at this whole thread actually
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
You can't really ban parents from opting out though can you? What about those parents who by their choice have children who opt out of religious education? Shouldn't parents have a right to not have their children indoctrinated into sky pixie brainwashing? You're on a rocky road to ruin I think if you try to prevent parents having a choice in what their children are taught in relation to relationships just as you would be if you you applied the same lack of rights to religious teaching.
Don't get me wrong I'm right with you all the way on the principal of the matter here but you can't stop people having a say in how their children are taught about things that as a parent are important to you as the person who brought them into this world.
Try being an atheist with three children who've been through state schools taught by Christian middle class teachers
State schools have a legal obligation under the HRA and the Equality Act - they could be sued for not treating anyone with protected characteristics equally, which means homophobia (whether justified by an outdated interpretation of ancient texts or not) is unlawful in the classroom.
We didn't fight Section 28 to arrive at this place, with homophobic Muslims, Jews and Christians contradicting the law. What they teach their children at home is their business. What they teach children in the schools that I pay for, is mine.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
So what are you doing about it beyond your anti-semitic antics here? I'll chuck a score to the server fund if before 1900 this evening you made representations to an elected representative, a Jewish organisation or a newspaper about it: I'm sure my money's safe, you won't do anything but froth about it
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
Too right. The OP thinks equality legislation is a "radical, leftist" project, and there is such a thing as an "LGBT ideology"!
SAY NO MORE.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If only you could be relied upon to SAY NO MORE
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
So Jews who think what you want them to think are okay, or at least tolerable. It's good that we've got that clear.
With regard to pygmies, is it people from certain ethnic groups in Central Africa who you despise or all humans below average height.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there is such a thing as LGBT ideology, by ideology i mean a set of ideas. equality and human rights is also ideology. communism is an ideology, and so is fascism and religions are also ideologies etc. I don't mean by it something negative or positive per se.
It is odd to see anarchists again being in effect pro state, supporting equality legislation ie statist authoritarian progressive measures.
eh?
It is odd to see anarchists again being in effect pro state, supporting equality legislation ie statist authoritarian progressive measures.
eh?
When a friend got married, his primary school age neice and nephew were really disappointed. They'd seen a programme on TV where a gay couple had a Star Wars themed wedding and they extrapolated from that and thought that's what all gay weddings were like...
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
Homophobic Ultra-Orthodox Jews who abuse their children and threaten to leave the country when disallowed that abuse in state schools are invited to follow up on that promise, that's all. Why would anyone want to share space with child abusers?
You seem to want to justify their child abuse because they are Ultra-Orthodox Jews? Be clear, it's not a Jewish thing, it's a homophobe thing.
It's all people of low stature really, I see them as less than human. Good for resting your cup of coffee on perhaps, but not much use beyond that. Is that wrong???
Silly twat.
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
I presume this set of ideas is written down somewhere? I'd like to read it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
nice to see you accusing Jews of noncery on the basis of er no evidence whatsoever
Keep it classy wookey
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
i never got issued with a copy either...
Wookey
Muppet is not a slur
Wasn't it part of our entrance exam? So long ago I now I forget!
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
Absolutely Wookey. Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating against that, I was responding to the idea that you could stop someone from exercising their right as a parent to opt out on aspects of education based upon your beliefs. You're kinda missing my point to be honest mate.
I don't believe in god and it's my right to have my children opt out of RE, not that I have, I've had to deal with them being delivered RE from a 'believers' perspective throughout their education because in all accounts they've been taught by Christian teachers and I've had to work quite hard with my kids and most of those teachers to get them to understand and respect my right to have my children brought up without such babble in their lives. The point I suppose I'm making is that it's quite hard to work with 'believers' of what children should be taught and your right to opt out sometimes is your only choice.
If you remove that right for one aspect of choice you in turn could end up with a situation where the state has total control over what children are taught regardless of what a human being thinks is the right way to bring their children up in this world and that's actually quite a dangerous place to be as a parent.
We're more likely arguing the same point my friend. I'm just turning it on it's head to prove that you can't ban parents from bringing their children up how they see fit unless it's decreed harmful to the child and not vr's prejudicial to a certain section of society and their right. In essence it's more complex than that.
Thankfully my kids have both grown up weary of religion but pretty wholistic, informed, free of choice and understanding to the concept of sexuality.
ETA you don't pay to raise children through your taxes, you do it in far more crippling ways than that.
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