LGBT in schools vs religious parents

[Riklet]

.

 

[likesfish]

not all religious people want to see the end of lgbt people. for example lgbt jews or xians unlikely to agree with your assessment of what they want.

their not the ones complaining that the state has the outrageous demand that all humans are treated with basic dignity I mean its outrageous discrimination against the faithful you cant even murder unbelievers, heretics and apostates anymore

 

[Anton]

hi,

That you've no opinion on the matter and are just continuing your part as a tiresome vapid troll

you would be a good stalinist if you had a different ideology. shut 'em down.

this is a different thread. not a troll, but realising that left/anarchists have nothing but slogans. nothing concrete. no real way to deal with this problem any different from the government ie ban, hate speech laws, shut em down, PRETEND THE PROBLEM DOESNT EXIST etc.

i think this issue is another one that the left in the widest sense can't deal with in a serious way.

I was a member of RESPECT back in the day, not for long tho, and this problem was not dealt with either, but brushed under the carpet and plastered over by speeches from Galloway and stupid slogans from the SWP leadership.

honestly curious how it could be dealt with.
the right are making capital out of this, because it is too obvious that elements of LGBT are being rejected by many religious ethnic minorities. and the left is unable to browbeat them down without being accused of islamophobia, anti semitism and racism.

Muslim, Jew, and Christian alike, with the Christians often being black African Christians, openly rejecting LGBT ideology.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I agree.

Plus, IMO, any religion and "an act of daily collective worship" should not form any part of any school curriculum.

Yep, that's a winner.

 

[Don Troooomp]

I agree.

Plus, IMO, any religion and "an act of daily collective worship" should not form any part of any school curriculum.

Yep, that's a winner.

The way I read it is that the little kids are being taught that there are different kinds of families and that all of the variations are fine rather than what happens in people's beds.

I'd like to see the books but I still have reservations about the whole idea of little kids and relationships of any sort

 

[Pickman's model]

hi,



not really, this is a different thread. not a troll, but realising that left/anarchists have nothing but slogans. nothing concrete. no real way to deal with this problem any different from the government ie ban, hate speech laws, shut em down, PRETEND THE PROBLEM DOESNT EXIST etc.

i think this issue is another one that the left in the widest sense can't deal with in a serious way.

what is your opinion on the teaching of lgbt subjects in schools? you have advanced no view on that.

 

[Pickman's model]

their not the ones complaining that the state has the outrageous demand that all humans are treated with basic dignity I mean its outrageous discrimination against the faithful you cant even murder unbelievers, heretics and apostates anymore

you can

it's just that like any other murder you will be sought for the killing

 

[Mrs Miggins]

hi,



not really, this is a different thread. not a troll, but realising that left/anarchists have nothing but slogans. nothing concrete. no real way to deal with this problem any different from the government ie ban, hate speech laws, shut em down, PRETEND THE PROBLEM DOESNT EXIST etc.

i think this issue is another one that the left in the widest sense can't deal with in a serious way.

What problem are "the left" pretending doesn't exist here?

 

[Pickman's model]

.

best point on the thread

 

[likesfish]

you can

it's just that like any other murder you will be sought for the killing

but they want to be celebrated as doing a righteous thing

 

[Anton]

Some bigoted Jews would rather leave the country than abide by our laws.

Well, don't let the door smack you on the arse on your way out then.

oh dear oh dear.

 

[Pickman's model]

but they want to be celebrated as doing a righteous thing

if someone got donald trump i imagine a lot of people would be dancing in the streets even if they weren't celebrating good times.

 

[Pickman's model]

oh dear oh dear.

that's the nearest you've come to voicing an opinion in the last week

 

[Anton]

What problem are "the left" pretending doesn't exist here?

a large section of religious ethnic minorities reject LGBT ideology. i guess.

 

[Anton]

that's the nearest you've come to voicing an opinion in the last week

not really. my opinion is that anarchism isn't real politics. i've made the point, this is a different one.

 

[Pickman's model]

not really. my opinion is that anarchism isn't real politics. i've made the point, this is a different one.

you're a one opinion man. which makes you look silly when in the context of some numpty being anti-semitic your opinion is 'anarchism isn't real politics'.

 

[Thora]

I'd like to see the books but I still have reservations about the whole idea of little kids and relationships of any sort

Little kids aren't somehow existing outside of relationships

 

[Mrs Miggins]

a large section of religious ethnic minorities reject LGBT ideology. i guess.

I think everyone knows that really and it doesn't mean that everything has to revolve around people who hold such views.

 

[existentialist]

hi,



you would be a good stalinist if you had a different ideology. shut 'em down.

this is a different thread. not a troll, but realising that left/anarchists have nothing but slogans. nothing concrete. no real way to deal with this problem any different from the government ie ban, hate speech laws, shut em down, PRETEND THE PROBLEM DOESNT EXIST etc.

i think this issue is another one that the left in the widest sense can't deal with in a serious way.

I was a member of RESPECT back in the day, not for long tho, and this problem was not dealt with either, but brushed under the carpet and plastered over by speeches from Galloway and stupid slogans from the SWP leadership.

honestly curious how it could be dealt with.
the right are making capital out of this, because it is too obvious that elements of LGBT are being rejected by many religious ethnic minorities. and the left is unable to browbeat them down without being accused of islamophobia, anti semitism and racism.

Muslim, Jew, and Christian alike, with the Christians often being black African Christians, openly rejecting LGBT ideology.

So, who did you used to be?

#gettingboringnow

 

[existentialist]

Yep, that's a winner.


I'd like to see the books but I still have reservations about the whole idea of little kids and relationships of any sort

Thing is, kids aren't the unsullied little angels the Victorians would have had us believe - they are fascinated and curious about what goes on around them, and they want to understand it: just because they can't always articulate what they are seeing, it doesn't mean that they aren't seeing it.

So these kids will be encountering same-sex relationships and the social manifestations of LGBT sexualities/gender. We can choose to offer them some (age-appropriate) information about what they're seeing, or we can pretend it's not happening, and kick the can down the road until they're older, when we then have to manage the unpicking of the earlier assumptions they've made in the absence of information as well as starting from scratch on the explaining.

And that's just for kids who are being given no information - the children who are being given false, negative, or misleading information (eg by parents who believe that telling kids about LGBT is going to "make them gay" ) are the ones who need a source of unimpeachable information even more.

I do think we should completely remove the practice of religion from school, and I also think we should make a comprehensive curriculum of health, sex, and relationships education a mandatory part of the education process. No exceptions. If you don't like it, feel free to propagandise your own children at home...at least, they'll have TWO points of view to compare, then, instead of just yours.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was a member of RESPECT back in the day

you were in the ruc, that explains a lot

 

[andysays]

not all religious people want to see the end of lgbt people. for example lgbt jews or xians unlikely to agree with your assessment of what they want.

There are even some "straight" people of various religious faiths who are perfectly tolerant of lgbt people and wouldn't necessarily object to their children being included in the No Outsiders scheme.

I also find it rather odd that the OP has chosen focus on the religious beliefs of immigrant and ethnic minority parents, as if it's only people from immigrant and ethnic minority backgrounds who might have religious beliefs which make them likely to prefer that their young children aren't taught about LGBT issues in school, and that he's singling out Haredi Jews in particular.

 

[Pickman's model]

There are even some "straight" people of various religious faiths who are perfectly tolerant of lgbt people and wouldn't necessarily object to their children being included in the No Outsiders scheme.

I also find it rather odd that the OP has chosen focus on the religious beliefs of immigrant and ethnic minority parents, as if it's only people from immigrant and ethnic minority backgrounds who might have religious beliefs which make them likely to prefer that their young children aren't taught about LGBT issues in school, and that he's singling out Haredi Jews in particular.

i'm by no means surprised and believe that as time goes on other elements of his nefandous agenda will become more apparent

 

[tim]

because what hope if any of their Kids turn out to be gay or trans as much as the religious would like all LGBT teens to quietly kill themselves even most torys think that's wrong.
the simple concept that LGBT exist and that's ok is rather hard for the religious to accept demons flying horses people living in whales all the animals in the world on a wooden boat fine. Gay people now you've gone too far.

You love your straw-mullahs, don't you!

 

[klang]

with the Christians often being black African Christians

wtf

 

[Anton]

There are even some "straight" people of various religious faiths who are perfectly tolerant of lgbt people and wouldn't necessarily object to their children being included in the No Outsiders scheme.

I also find it rather odd that the OP has chosen focus on the religious beliefs of immigrant and ethnic minority parents, as if it's only people from immigrant and ethnic minority backgrounds who might have religious beliefs which make them likely to prefer that their young children aren't taught about LGBT issues in school, and that he's singling out Haredi Jews in particular.

the guardian article was about Muslims, the other one about Haredi Jews. I have chosen to focus on the religious views of ethnic minority groups vs the left because it should be discussed. it is an issue, and if you find it odd, and get ready to tar anyone who brings up the issue as 'odd', well perhaps it is you who are odd. what you are saying is this can't and shouldn't be discussed because it is perhaps uncomfortable.

Haredi Jews are not the issue, neither are Muslims, many examples of African Christians can also be found. I do want to focus on it, not on a particular religious community, but the particular issue of religious immigrant communities vs secular leftist atheism.

I don't think LGBT rights are the only issue, also abortion, contraception, etc.

why shouldn't it be a discussion? because the far right certainly do highlight the seeming absurdity of some leftist positions. it would be better to find a way of dealing with it.

Whatever you think of him, Peter Tatchell has tried to discuss the issue.

Peter Tatchell campaign for LGBT Muslims receives mixed reaction

 

[Pickman's model]

the guardian article was about Muslims, the other one about Haredi Jews. I have chosen to focus on the religious views of ethnic minority groups vs the left because it should be discussed. it is an issue, and if you find it odd, and get ready to tar anyone who brings up the issue as 'odd', well perhaps it is you who are odd. what you are saying is this can't and shouldn't be discussed because it is perhaps uncomfortable.

Haredi Jews are not the issue, neither are Muslims, many examples of African Christians can also be found. I do want to focus on it, not on a particular religious community, but the particular issue of religious immigrant communities vs secular leftist atheism.

I don't think LGBT rights are the only issue, also abortion, contraception, etc.

why shouldn't it be a discussion? because the far right certainly do highlight the seeming absurdity of some leftist positions. it would be better to find a way of dealing with it.

Whatever you think of him, Peter Tatchell has tried to discuss the issue.

Peter Tatchell campaign for LGBT Muslims receives mixed reaction

yeh tatchell's tried to discuss the issue.

you haven't.

all you've posted are repetitious variations on 'the left can't deal with this / we should talk about it'. you've advanced no actual opinion on the matter.

 

[klang]

Muslim, Jew, and Christian alike, with the Christians often being black African Christians

why don't you tell us what continent the lgbt hating muslims and jews are from?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Should religion be taught as a subject? Absolutely.

Should it be allowed to dictate what kids are taught elsewhere in the school? Absolutely not.

 

[Anton]

why don't you tell us what continent the lgbt hating muslims and jews are from?

tedious way to avoid an issue. get ready to scream racist and fascist.

white christians also have similar views. but they are not the issue of the article i posted.