ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I don't think schools have to teach that certain things are right or wrong. They just have to explain the facts, and make the point that some people disapprove.
LGBT in schools vs religious parents
- Thread starter Anton
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I don't think schools have to teach that certain things are right or wrong. They just have to explain the facts, and make the point that some people disapprove.
TruXta
tired
Late on this, CBA posting from phone yesterday.
As parents have the right to raise their children how they see fit. No matter what abhorrent views they might inculcate in them. Schools on behalf of the state, a proxy for society , has IMO a duty to teach the common values society is predicated on. Schools more than other institutions are central to this. Having an ideology in the home doesn't shield you from exposure to competing idiologies.
And I must admit, I get the hump with whining religious types who want to have the right to basically indoctrinate their charges, pleading special cases for not having to hold to societal rules.
8ball
1,200 lights
And only printed by the millions in about 2000 languages
I wasn't talking about the bloody Bible!
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
LGBT is not an ‘ideology’ ffs, it’s people.
TruXta
tired
Nor was II wasn't talking about the bloody Bible!
8ball
1,200 lights
The term "LGBT ideology" reminds me of those taboid stories in the 80s about how the gays were going into schools on conversion missions.
TruXta
tired
I get what you're saying, but is it really that simple? Saying it's just people for me sort of sweeps the history of the LGBT movements away and makes out as if they've always been there just like they are today.
8ball
1,200 lights
Nor was I
Fair enough - the book I was given was a pretty famous one.
The funny thing is how the language of science is partly adopted but then approached in an entirely religious manner.
8ball
1,200 lights
True, but it's a diverse set of movements moreso than anything you can call an ideology imo.
TruXta
tired
Ideology is too strong a word, perhaps, but it has ideological elements.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
That some of your more dubious beliefs that you're trying to hide beneath your anti-anarchist mission keep slipping out into full view.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Schools are less and less directed/controlled by the State these days.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Just catching up with this so apologies if the point's been made, but a gay child is unlikely to come out to a homophobic religious parent who thinks homosexuality is wrong. So the parent will not know their child is gay. In fact, they're likely to assume that their child cannot possibly be gay, no?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You’re right. Point already made.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
[
Fair dos. I was reading, but lost the will to finish it.You’re right. Point already made.
Is disability an ideology?
Is black an ideology?
I mean if holding ideas that ascert your right to exist and be equal in the eyes of the law, free from percecution etc, is what counts as an ideology, i'ts a pretty meaningless term to throw in to this debate. I don't tbelieve the OP is arguning in good faith anyway and is snidely suggesting something more by his use of the word.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That's not what they're doing according to the link in the OP though is it?
School defends LGBT lessons after religious parents complain
That's difficult to argue with when the school is in a muslim community and 98% of the kids are muslim.
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
From the titles of the lessons/books, it sounds more like they're just teaching them that some people have two dads or two mums, and it doesn't make the kid any more or less weird than having the 'usual' compliment of one parent of each sex or one parent. IMHO this is pretty much the full extent that 'sex' education lessons should go to for 6-year-olds, or at least that and what to do if someone touches you somewhere private and it makes you feel uncomfortable). Maybe if the lessons were called something other than "sex" education. "gender education" maybe, or "health and gender studies"?
By the time kids are 9 they already have to split the boys and girls up so that they can teach the girls about periods. Lots of girls start their periods age 9-10 thees days, and I can imagine that a lot of households struggle to broach the topic with their children. My step-sister met a Chinese post-grad when she was studying towards her masters degree who free-bled and spent several days a month curled up in bed crying because she thought something was wring with her. Her very conservative and busy parents had never broached the subject, so she thought there was something terrible wrong with her. This was a woman in her 20s, and her parents weren't even religious - just very busy with work and too embarassed to bring the subject up with their only daughter.
I can imagine that there are many circumstances, from single dads through to neglect that could also lead to a situation where school was the only source of information on why some kids have two mummies, what periods are, and lots of more basic stuff - all before even touching on actual sex and personal sexuality.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
A bit further down:
"Moffat, who is also a personal social health education teacher at the 770-pupil school, introduced the programme around four years ago. It includes the welcoming of people of any race, colour or religion and those who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.
He said: “I’m just teaching children from an early age that there are different families out there and, let’s not forget, that in some schools there are children with two mums, so I see it that they’re not being taught anything. All they’re seeing is their family is being accepted."
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
The parents seem to disagree though and he's had to resign from another (predominantly muslim) school for his views before. If it is the case how reasonable is it in an entirely muslim school anyway?
8ball
1,200 lights
Maybe a "homophobe-approved" stamp and set of teaching practises for a subset of schools?
How granular are we going to get?
Vegan anti-vaxx flat-earther alt-right 4chan-atheist only schools?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
How about just leave sex education to parents?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
let's take things on a case by case basis for the time being
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh cos i suppose they're in the best position to give their children advice on contraception and relationships
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
What do you mean by "sex education" though? It's potentially a pretty broad area.
8ball
1,200 lights
So long as I don’t have to pay out for the consequences in terms of unwanted pregnancies.
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