Let's talk about China

[skyscraper101]

He does have some understanding and has lived in China for a long time. His older videos were quite informative, politically neutral stories about everyday life in China which generally had a positive spin - however as the political environment changed, anything short of gushing praise became unacceptable and he was increasingly harassed and threatened by nationalists online and in real life, and eventually fled the country because he was tipped off that some officials were gunning for him. After that his videos become more political and all the frustrations he couldn't express before came out in a flood.

Most of what he says is in good faith, however he does definitely have an axe to grind so does go a bit overboard sometimes too. He certainly has more integrity that any of the white monkey China YouTubers doing propaganda for beer money though, but that isn't hard.

I've followed Winston aka SerpentZA and his collaborator Laowhy86 for years, since they lived in China in fact. Their videos are always really informative and insightful and I've learned a lot about China, and more recently how fucked up things are there.

They clearly have a lot of love for the country and the people - they've travelled all over the country - way more than most Chinese have - they both speak Chinese and have Chinese wives etc. And they always stress that their disdain is always towards the CCP and not 'China'. I've a lot of time for them.

 

[8ball]

Winston is certainly an eccentric fella.

 

[yield]

Tiger Global-backed Missfresh stops paying salaries as it runs out of cash
FT. 28/07/22. archive.ph
Unpaid suppliers occupy Chinese delivery start-up’s offices as it scrambles to raise funds

Missfresh, a Chinese grocery delivery start-up once valued at $3bn, told hundreds of employees that it had run out of cash, as a group of unpaid suppliers protested at its Beijing offices.

An executive at the Tiger Global-backed company told employees on a hastily arranged call that an expected investment from a coal mining group had not materialised, and that it could not pay overdue June salaries.

 

[gosub]

 

[petee]

I'm old, when I read Winston and China I think Winston Lord

Winston Lord - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BristolEcho]

They are a bit unhappy about Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan. Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan as China puts military on high alert

 

[Nine Bob Note]

They are a bit unhappy about Nancy Pelosi visiting Taiwan. Nancy Pelosi arrives in Taiwan as China puts military on high alert

Presumably they checked her luggage for cruise missiles on arrival?

 

[teqniq]

So this is their response:

 

[NoXion]

So this is their response:

That tweet from the Chinese media guy has got some serious "Now look at what you made me do!" overtones. Is this that famous "wolf warrior diplomacy" at work? Doing your best to sound like an abusive spouse?

 

[skyscraper101]

Winston is certainly an eccentric fella.

I mean sure he likes wearing suits and ties for no apparent reason but generally he seems sound. He has clearly been through a few rough times in post-apartheid South Africa and his early days in China, which certainly rubs off in his appreciation of America and disdain for the CCP but I like the contrast between him and Matt. They make a good pair.

 

[8ball]

He likes wearing suits because he wants to be the sort of person who wears a suit.

(fairly direct quote)

 

[Bingoman]

So this is their response:

They look a bit close?

Is Taiwan a member of the United nations, if so they could put a complaint in?

 

[Rimbaud]

They look a bit close?

Is Taiwan a member of the United nations, if so they could put a complaint in?

Taiwan is not a member of the UN - attempting to join would very likely trigger a Chinese invasion. At least, likely enough not to be worth calling their bluff.

 

[tim]

They look a bit close?

Is Taiwan a member of the United nations, if so they could put a complaint in?

The Republic of China was a Permanent Member of the UN Security Council until 1971when Albania's delegation talked the General Assembly into giving their seat to the People's Republic of China. Now the Republic of China is recognised as the real China by hardly anyone, not even the USA and certainly not the UK. We backed the Albanians back in 1971.

 

[skyscraper101]

So this is their response:

All that because some 82 year old grandma stopped over for 24 hours. Says a lot about how fragile their little egos are in the CCP.

 

[8ball]

All that because some 82 year old grandma stopped over for 24 hours. Says a lot about how fragile their little egos are in the CCP.

I read somewhere that September (might have been October) and April are the most feasible months for an actual invasion due to... reasons (weather or something).
Not feeling too good about any "we'll just park here and look ominous" business after what happened earlier this year.

 

[NoXion]

All that because some 82 year old grandma stopped over for 24 hours. Says a lot about how fragile their little egos are in the CCP.

She's not just any old woman, Pelosi is a real piece of work.

But the CCP's reaction is nevertheless ridiculous, foreign dignitaries visit places all the time without some bunch of bootlickers foaming at the mouth about it.

 

[trabuquera]

skyscraper101 and NoXion - it's maybe irrelevant and quibbling in the grand superpower scheme of things - but I put it to you that describing Nancy Pelosi as "some 82 year old grandma" or "not just any old woman [...but...] a real piece of work" could be called a smidge sexist (sure you didn't mean it that way but it has a slight edge to it I'm not sure you intended). I mean sure Biden is a 79 year old white grandfather, of course, but you rarely hear/see him described that way.

 

[NoXion]

skyscraper101 and NoXion - it's maybe irrelevant and quibbling in the grand superpower scheme of things - but I put it to you that describing Nancy Pelosi as "some 82 year old grandma" or "not just any old woman [...but...] a real piece of work" could be called a smidge sexist (sure you didn't mean it that way but it has a slight edge to it I'm not sure you intended). I mean sure Biden is a 79 year old white grandfather, of course, but you rarely hear/see him described that way.

I'd have described Biden the exact same way in a similar situation, just appropriately gender-flipped. No idea what you're on about, at least as far as my post goes.

 

[platinumsage]

For at least the past 2000 years, China has been the world's most populous country, says Paul Morland in the Daily Telegraph.

Nonsense, India was the most populous country for most of that period up until the mid 1700s when China overtook it.

 

[skyscraper101]

I'd have described Biden the exact same way in a similar situation, just appropriately gender-flipped. No idea what you're on about, at least as far as my post goes.

^ This.

trabuquera it was purely a facetious remark and I'd have said grandad if she'd been one. No sexism intended whatsoever.

 

[Cid]

I've followed Winston aka SerpentZA and his collaborator Laowhy86 for years, since they lived in China in fact. Their videos are always really informative and insightful and I've learned a lot about China, and more recently how fucked up things are there.

They clearly have a lot of love for the country and the people - they've travelled all over the country - way more than most Chinese have - they both speak Chinese and have Chinese wives etc. And they always stress that their disdain is always towards the CCP and not 'China'. I've a lot of time for them.

Well, you've learned what they say those things are. Er... I won't come out too strongly against them, largely because I can't actually remember what turned me off them. But something did. I think them just playing up negative aspects of Chinese life for views.

For genuinely solid China analysis, try Sinica podcast and associated Supchina news platform. The podcast is the strongest element imo, they get on a good range of guests; academics, diplomats, food historians etc. Broadly from a centre/centre left perspective I think, but they do well.

 

[Pickman's model]

Nonsense, India was the most populous country for most of that period up until the mid 1700s when China overtook it.

yeh. that's among your daftest posts yet because everyone - bar you, it seems - knows that there was no country india until well after the 1700s

 

[Petcha]

She's not just any old woman, Pelosi is a real piece of work.

But the CCP's reaction is nevertheless ridiculous, foreign dignitaries visit places all the time without some bunch of bootlickers foaming at the mouth about it.

Umm... the mid-terms are very close. The Democrats are fucked. The US electorate is scared of China and love the idea of standing up to them. It's a fairly transparent ploy from Biden.

 

[platinumsage]

yeh. that's among your daftest posts yet because everyone - bar you, it seems - knows that there was no country india until well after the 1700s

OK, it's weird how demographic history researchers all manage to overcome such technicalities.

 

[Cid]

yeh. that's among your daftest posts yet because everyone - bar you, it seems - knows that there was no country india until well after the 1700s

Yep, Mughal Empire at that point isn't it?

 

[skyscraper101]

Well, you've learned what they say those things are. Er... I won't come out too strongly against them, largely because I can't actually remember what turned me off them. But something did. I think them just playing up negative aspects of Chinese life for views.

For genuinely solid China analysis, try Sinica podcast and associated Supchina news platform. The podcast is the strongest element imo, they get on a good range of guests; academics, diplomats, food historians etc. Broadly from a centre/centre left perspective I think, but they do well.

I'll check out those podcasts thanks. Though I'd argue that while Matt/Winston do highlight the negatives in China, they are always keen to emphasize that it's squarely aimed at the evils of the CCP and not the country which they clearly both love. Their years of living and travelling and documenting in China and marrying Chinese women gives them a fair bit of legitimacy there IMO.

 

[platinumsage]

Well, if you want to to play that came the People's Republic of China had a population of zero prior to the 20th century.

 

[Cid]

I'll check out those podcasts thanks. Though I'd argue that while Matt/Winston do highlight the negatives in China, they are always keen to emphasize that it's squarely aimed at the evils of the CCP and not the country which they clearly both love. Their years of living and travelling and documenting in China and marrying Chinese women gives them a fair bit of legitimacy there IMO.

I think they use their focus on the CCP as a mask for criticism of Chinese culture more broadly. At least that's what I felt when I watched more of their content (and was in fact in China). On the latter point, I don't think this actually gives them legitimacy... I mean some, certainly, but they always struck me as people who travelled in China rather than really just settled into it as a place to live.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, if you want to to play that came the People's Republic of China had a population of zero prior to the 20th century.

this is one of those times when you'd have been better advised to meditate in silence on whether it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool or prove yourself one by piping up.