Social discourse has strongly shifted in the last 5-10 years, to the point where even multinational companies now employ climate officers and have sustainability policies and multinational insurers refuse to insure various types of hydrocarbon producers. That shift hasn’t happened because individuals sat around reasoning themselves into positions. It happened because of robust public discourses that created new emotional as well as reasoned norm-referencing.
Just Stop Oil
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platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
People keep saying what they are achieving, but it's all bollocks rationalising, like inter-movement solidarity and facilitating compromises via less-extreme approaches or whatever - things that for example, won't make any progress towards their actual stated goals or that there's no evidence for actually happening.
They're protesting on an issue I am concerned about, so they must be doing some good because....um....chin stroking... blah blah blah.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
What’s your solution?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Well no, it's not though is it, because everyone is critical of their limits and tactics as well as noting when they do stuff well.
This is known as "analysis", the idea is you look at what's being done, what the aim is and whether they're achieving that, alongside related secondary factors. This is generally considered a more rounded approach than wandering past every other week going "waah waah I'm a big baby who needs constant validation of my knee-jerk attitude".
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
If you mean stuff like this, it's not "analysis", and the stuff you seem to think they're doing well is either entirely useless for achieving their climate-related goals, or else has zero evidence to support it. It's just you pontificating trying to fill a void, or perhaps a knee-jerk response to someone to someone calling JSO "ineffectual".
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Two points rolling around my mind
First, I'm as much in favour of industrial action as anybody, in fact I'm in the midst of taking part and organising it right fucking now.
And it is great that there has been public sympathy for university and college staff, teachers, railway workers, bus workers, NHS staff, etc. But while these strikes have not been useless they've not been effective enough to actually result in maintaining, let alone raising, pay in real terms.
Sympathy is all well and good but fine words butter no parsnips it is no substitute for action, and very often actions are going to piss off a number of people (see tube strikes, civil rights movement, etc, etc). To suggest that public sympathy (I'll not call it support because in many/most cases it does not really amount to that), is necessary for improving workers conditions is spectacularly naive/stupid, the labour movement can, and should, use both tactics.
Second, for all the jibes about ideological purity and sectarianism that get thrown at communists/anarchists (sometimes justly), we're amateurs when it comes to the sort of liberal-left Labour aligned. Like the declaring anyone who does not vote Labour forever and a day, this thread is a wonderful example of how the "sensible/pragmatic/centre"-left are just about sectarian as it gets.
And now off for lunch
First, I'm as much in favour of industrial action as anybody, in fact I'm in the midst of taking part and organising it right fucking now.
And it is great that there has been public sympathy for university and college staff, teachers, railway workers, bus workers, NHS staff, etc. But while these strikes have not been useless they've not been effective enough to actually result in maintaining, let alone raising, pay in real terms.
Sympathy is all well and good but fine words butter no parsnips it is no substitute for action, and very often actions are going to piss off a number of people (see tube strikes, civil rights movement, etc, etc). To suggest that public sympathy (I'll not call it support because in many/most cases it does not really amount to that), is necessary for improving workers conditions is spectacularly naive/stupid, the labour movement can, and should, use both tactics.
Second, for all the jibes about ideological purity and sectarianism that get thrown at communists/anarchists (sometimes justly), we're amateurs when it comes to the sort of liberal-left Labour aligned. Like the declaring anyone who does not vote Labour forever and a day, this thread is a wonderful example of how the "sensible/pragmatic/centre"-left are just about sectarian as it gets.
And now off for lunch
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
This is the level you're at is it, picking a post to mindlessly rubbish out of a 37-page thread as a smoking gun so you can dismiss everything you disagree with? Pathetic.
souljacker
innit
Delayed the cricket and got the message out. Good on them.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
So what if he is? Isn't the place a message and discussion board? Because it's one of your causes you're in like a jack in the box again. Everyone is entitled to opinion, it doesn't have to be in line with yours ya tit.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
Nice pair or imported addids and nikes on! Fuck the climate i want my designer gearLol... bit of a fail here. Literally being carried off the field by the keeper before the dickhead could make it on the pitch
The ground staff fired up a petrol powered leaf blower to get rid of the dye. Not sure that was intentional or not.
Anyway, I think we can all agree we all dont want any more fossil fuels. But they do seem to have bizarre targets. The footage of the guy being carried off (quite a long way) by Johnny Bairstow was priceless though. Never seen that on a cricket field.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Lol... bit of a fail here. Literally being carried off the field by the keeper before the dickhead could make it on the pitch
How quickly you shift
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
Hooray you finally got to us it. Where's the slow handclap emoji when you need one,,,,,,,,,,
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There's a blast from the past
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
The Matt Bors cartoon springs to mind - "Yet you participate in society."
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
It often comes to mind when I see the "oh you buy things in a society which requires you to buy things, you must be a hypocrite" line. As though it's in any way logistically feasible for the vast majority of people to Do An Ethical in every aspect of their lives. What's the alternative to buying clothes, buy a farm to grow hemp and make a half-arsed job of weaving clothes yourself with all that spare money you don't have?
The flip side is people defending unfettered privatisation who nevertheless drive on public roads, which is also fucking stupid to call out, because what else are they supposed to do? What they want and the way they interact with what is not only don't have to be in alignment 100% of the time, they can't be, which should be a blindingly obvious point, but apparently we still have to hear this boring shite decades on ...
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gosub
~#
It's not cricket let alone ashesLol... bit of a fail here. Literally being carried off the field by the keeper before the dickhead could make it on the pitch
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Pardon??
yeah so what and yes it is and of course they are entitled to their opinion
My point, as it went over your ragey head the first time, is they called it a fail but a) it has worked as they're discussing and thinking about it again and b) they clearly are on the pitch,
so a double fail from petcha and the fail baton picked up by your angry self!
oh and, it's not "one of my causes", how am I "like a jack in the box"??
and how does my post make me a 'tit'?
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Basically "why do anti-capitalist buy anything from Starbucks. Or anywhere." It's a rubbish counter argument. Also it's quite easy to get second hand clothes these days so the assumption might not even be true.
We are all hypocritical to some degree. (I see others have already countred your point now reading back.)
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Any three word slogan beginning with the word Just is going to have to compete with my memory of Grange Hill and is thus doomed to failure I'm afraid
Pardon??
yeah so what and yes it is and of course they are entitled to their opinion
My point, as it went over your ragey head the first time, is they called it a fail but a) it has worked as they're discussing and thinking about it again and b) they clearly are on the pitch,
so a double fail from petcha and the fail baton picked up by your angry self!
oh and, it's not "one of my causes", how am I "like a jack in the box"??
and how does my post make me a 'tit'?
'Pitch' in cricket is different to 'Pitch' in football. In cricket it's the mowed bit in the middle. Not the field.
So. The chump was aiming for that but failed. Just like you.
Colin Hunt
Active Member
It's a boring and not particularly original piece of rhetoric to equate the individual clothing choices of one person with the entire fossil fuel industry. We'll see if you can stick the landing.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
It might be but it's reasonable and true, more so when cunts like me point it out. If the person was that serious and scared about the damage we're doing they wouldn't be buying imported shit. I get it all the time in Brighton from the climate brigade, their over consumption is fine and justifiable but the poor fuckers that they're yelling at or targeting isn't.
sealion
Conformity is the last refuge of the unimaginitive
?
You don't have make a lot of assumptions on this forum. I was far from ' ragey ' thank you very much. Was listening to reggae in the garden with a nice joint of hyocrite free, earth grown weed.
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