Just Stop Oil

[Karl Masks]

Seems pretty effective to me. Lots of sound and fury about it. And look how angry people like you are getting. That anger is exactly what they want.

You really misunderstand the nature of disruptive action if you think it’s about doing something and then directly getting what you want in response. You really misunderstand the nature of disruptive action if you think it’s about persuading unbelievers that you are correct. You really misunderstand the nature of disruptive action if you think it’s about quick wins or individuals.

You really misunderstand the nature of disruptive action.

I'm sure I do.

It's not effective at all because it hasn't succeeded in challenging power. All that happens is they get clipped on social media and framed for causing disruption and provoking the people punching them in these clips. This is then uploaded by bad faith actors (which is pretty much the entire modern media ecosphere) and people jump in agreeeing with Big Dave punching some soap dodger/professional protester/woke student.

I don't see any evidence that their actions are having any effect at all. this doesn't mean I don't support protest per se, or that their cuase isn't just.

 

[Rob Ray]

How people can live in this country and be so uninterested in its history of dissent really does baffle me sometimes. The subject's useful and actively way more interesting than which jug-eared cunt happens to be wombling around St Pauls in a gold dressing gown or what some drunken racist had to say about fighting on beaches.

Road protest in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is an example of a protest movement that routinely and repeatedly "held up workers" from doing their jobs through the use of direct action. It was absolutely monstered in the press and did not attempt to compromise by ditching the disruptive element of its work when tedious fucks said everything that's being trotted out now on this thread. They shut down Thatcher's motorway building scheme and as a result staved off the emission of countless amounts of carbon in the process. That's a direct example of A-B from action to effect. More usually the impact is much less clear cut but it's almost always there, influencing everything from the decline of nuclear, the rendering of fur farming and animal testing as guilty secrets, and the repeated setbacks that have been suffered by the deportations program.

States and companies never, ever, admit that direct action works or changes their policies, and that's because, unlike "civic discourse," (which they adore because words cost nothing, or rather is exceedingly cheap because the means of distributing said words is owned by their mates) it actually works by hitting their one function - profit.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I'm one of the greenest posters on here. Really want to go there?

Got kids?

 

[Artaxerxes]

How people can live in this country and be so uninterested in its history of dissent really does baffle me sometimes. The subject's useful and actively way more interesting than which jug-eared cunt happens to be wombling around St Pauls in a gold dressing gown or what some drunken racist had to say about fighting on beaches.

Road protest in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is an example of a protest movement that routinely and repeatedly "held up workers" from doing their jobs through the use of direct action. It was absolutely monstered in the press and did not attempt to compromise by ditching the disruptive element of its work when tedious fucks said everything that's being trotted out now on this thread. They shut down Thatcher's motorway building scheme and as a result staved off the emission of countless amounts of carbon in the process. That's a direct example of A-B from action to effect. More usually the impact is much less clear cut but it's almost always there, influencing everything from the decline of nuclear, the rendering of fur farming and animal testing as guilty secrets, and the repeated setbacks that have been suffered by the deportations program.

States and companies never, ever, admit that direct action works or changes their policies, and that's because, unlike "civic discourse," (which they adore because words cost nothing, or rather is exceedingly cheap because the means of distributing said words is owned by their mates) it actually works by hitting their one function - profit.

There’s a real tendency to assume peaceful protest works in total isolation and to put “nobody causes trouble” at the head of that when discussing protest over the last few decades.

Which ignores that peaceful protest usually a) caused massive disruption if targeted correctly; working to rule, downing tools, boycotts and slow marches to Washington name your pick, and b) there was usually a history of unpeaceful protest prior or alongside it e.g Malcolm X the Black Panthers working on the other side of MLK


Time and again I hear people saying “gosh can’t these protests happen where they won’t affect Normal Working People” and it’s just alien to me.

 

[DotCommunist]

I remember watching Nae Pasaran and thinking a few days after, you cunts, bbc, all the money and resources and access and so rarely do we get anything like this. Always money for another docu on richard the thirds ballsack though

 

[gosub]

Bastards have only gone and attacked the working class institute that is the Chelsea Flower Show!

Made HIGNFY where it was described as the Whitest thing ever by a Nigerian comedian

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm one of the greenest posters on here. Really want to go there?

Yes, am happy to be educated - it’s on you to prove you’re not throwing stones from your glass house

 

[Orang Utan]

Thanks Mum

How revealing.

 

[WouldBe]

Got kids?

No.

 

[WouldBe]

Yes, am happy to be educated - it’s on you to prove you’re not throwing stones from your glass house

Whilst I may be posting from an armchair it's in a well insulated house (just office and kitchen left to do), powered by solar PV which has generated 12.3MWh so far. When I can afford to buy or build a battery backup system I should be nearly self sufficient in electricity. Hot water is provided by a solar thermal panel which is to be replaced soon by a more efficient / reliable system. As soon as I've finished with all the dusty work I can finally finish the installation and commission of the heat recovery ventilation system. My house is heated by carbon 'neutral' biofuel. I also don't have a car or kids.

As for recycling I recycle everything I can and when larger items (like the washing machine that recently packed up) I dismantle them and make sure each part is properly recycled.

All this has been done off my own back without 'persuasion' from the likes of jso and most of it has been done whilst on benefits so it's a shame that others can't do the same without having to have everything handed to them on a plate.

E2a: helped by compensation from mis-sold PPI.

 

[Rob Ray]

Congratulations on your individualist effort to do up your own house. I too am installing insulation and solar that I can afford to pay for to make my home more energy efficient in a time of fuel price crisis.

You realise such efforts are completely pointless in terms of climate change if the reforms required of major institutions don't happen though, yes?

All this has been done off my own back without 'persuasion' from the likes of jso

They are not trying to persuade you of anything.

Jfc 30 pages of absolute brick wall.

 

[WouldBe]

You realise such efforts are completely pointless in terms of climate change if the reforms required of major institutions don't happen though, yes?

Yes I am aware of that which is why I've said that big companies should be doing a lot more. The more people that take measures themselves the less reliance there will be on gas in particular so the gas companies will have to change.

 

[kabbes]

I look forward to WouldBe completing his work, eliminating single element of every bit of all his carbon output and the world merely producing 0.99999999999999 of its previous greenhouse gases as a result.

 

[kabbes]

Yes I am aware of that which is why I've said that big companies should be doing a lot more.

Now we’re getting there. And if they “should” do it, how are we going to make them do it? Asking nicely doesn’t seem to be working that well.

 

[WouldBe]

I look forward to WouldBe completing his work, eliminating single element of every bit of all his carbon output and the world merely producing 0.99999999999999 of its previous greenhouse gases as a result.

What's your contribution?

 

[kabbes]

What's your contribution?

Amongst other things, creating a policy framework that causes a multinational insurance company to act as a social lever to force the reduction of CO2 output from its customer companies.

 

[ddraig]

What's your contribution?

grow up

 

[Rob Ray]

I've said that big companies should be doing a lot more

And you understand how companies work, right? That the sole interest of the board is to maximise the annual profits which are the stated reason for the company's existence and linked directly to their remuneration packages, not to do what's right by society?



What you, or I, or even David Attenborough have to say is irrelevant. What matters is their bottom line. That's what they care about. It ultimately overrides every other factor. So how do you impact on it?

The more people that take measures themselves the less reliance there will be on gas in particular so the gas companies will have to change.

You insulating your house isn't a policy, is it. It's a personal thing you are doing because you've been persuaded it's a good idea. Which fine. But beyond the people who (for whatever reason) can't do such works or won't-but-might-later. we know that there's a broad swathe of the population that near enough cannot be persuaded because they're either captured by energy propaganda or of that weird ilk who just hate "woke" so much they refuse outright to do anything that smacks of progressivism. And that part of the populace is what backs the companies in their quest to attack new laws, lobby, discredit scientists, etc etc in opposition to our part.

For them "having a civil conversation" is great, it extends the amount of time that occurs before they have to do anything. Individialised "freedoms" are exactly their preference, because it absolves them of having to take any action at all. Individual action doesn't change squat in this equation, we all still burn no matter how personally smug you are about your well-insulated walls.

 

[Elpenor]

Action taken at todays premiership rugby final

 

[Artaxerxes]

Action taken at todays premiership rugby final

View attachment 376467

I’ll never understand the offside rule

 

[Elpenor]

The two who made it onto the pitch had the same colour clothing as the medics and went on the pitch at the same time as a medic tending to an injured player

 

[nogojones]

Whilst I may be posting from an armchair it's in a well insulated house (just office and kitchen left to do), powered by solar PV which has generated 12.3MWh so far. When I can afford to buy or build a battery backup system I should be nearly self sufficient in electricity. Hot water is provided by a solar thermal panel which is to be replaced soon by a more efficient / reliable system. As soon as I've finished with all the dusty work I can finally finish the installation and commission of the heat recovery ventilation system. My house is heated by carbon 'neutral' biofuel. I also don't have a car or kids.

As for recycling I recycle everything I can and when larger items (like the washing machine that recently packed up) I dismantle them and make sure each part is properly recycled.

All this has been done off my own back without 'persuasion' from the likes of jso and most of it has been done whilst on benefits so it's a shame that others can't do the same without having to have everything handed to them on a plate.

E2a: helped by compensation from mis-sold PPI.

Fair Play. That you recycled your kids shows real commitment.

 

[Rob Ray]

Pretty brave thing to do tbh regardless of whether you agree with it or not - being tackled by an angry rugby professional is no joke.

 

[Elpenor]

Pretty brave thing to do tbh regardless of whether you agree with it or not - being tackled by an angry rugby professional is no joke.

Think it was the security team who got them down.

 

[Karl Masks]

Congratulations on your individualist effort to do up your own house. I too am installing insulation and solar that I can afford to pay for to make my home more energy efficient in a time of fuel price crisis.

You realise such efforts are completely pointless in terms of climate change if the reforms required of major institutions don't happen though, yes?


They are not trying to persuade you of anything.

Jfc 30 pages of absolute brick wall.

Is that why in response to criticism they post clips of places impacted by climate change? Of course they are trying to perusade people

 

[Rob Ray]

Is that why in response to criticism they post clips of places impacted by climate change?

That's the obvious thing to do when you're a zealot on a particular topic and randoms are harassing you. Animal rights types respond with pics from battery farms. Christians respond with quotes from the bible. That's not persuasion, it's "I don't care what you think there's more important things on my mind" done in a way which energises your own base.

And beyond that of course the big spectacles are quite obviously not their one and only option. They may not necessarily care if a pitch invasion changes anyone's mind, but that doesn't mean they're banned from also promoting their viewpoints at things like meetings and online.

To take a parallel example from the animal rights lot, we can look at the the strategy of going after Huntingdon Life Sciences personnel. It was extremely unpopular because, obviously, personally targeted campaigns against civilians. Some of it went pretty damn far. They still put up their justifications because why not, it's a solid recruiter for some folks who want to take action. And it was done as part of a spectrum of approaches to incorporate both a forward facing aspect alongside the socially unacceptable direct action stuff. But what they specifically cared about was the disruption bit, not the persuasion bit.

 

[WouldBe]

I too am installing insulation and solar that I can afford to pay for to make my home more energy efficient in a time of fuel price crisis.

My solar panels and most of the other stuff were put in before the shit hit the fan wrt the energy crisis as it was the environmentally friendly thing to do.

I also put £500 into an energy co-op to build a local wind turbine.

 

[WouldBe]

For them "having a civil conversation" is great, it extends the amount of time that occurs before they have to do anything. Individialised "freedoms" are exactly their preference, because it absolves them of having to take any action at all. Individual action doesn't change squat in this equation, we all still burn no matter how personally smug you are about your well-insulated walls.

Which is hardly what the likes of jso are doing is it when they wind people up by their actions.

We might just as well all give up now.

 

[WouldBe]

grow up

What's your contribution?

 

[Rob Ray]

Which is hardly what the likes of jso are doing is it when they wind people up by their actions.

Correct, they are not trying to have a civil conversation. That is in fact the point I've been trying to make.

We might just as well all give up now.

Speaking as a guy who's been fighting lost battles his entire adult life, I'd rather keep at it and be able to look my reflection in the eye thanks.