Just Stop Oil

[1927]

I don't care what anyone says, you're a smart cookie.

My point being how does that benefit anyone? We’ll are still going to use fossil fuels for the foreseeable future, so we don’t improve anything by unilaterally stopping new licences.

 

[8ball]

My point being how does that benefit anyone? We’ll are still going to use fossil fuels for the foreseeable future, so we don’t improve anything by unilaterally stopping new licences.

I'm beginning to wonder whether we've both been making the same point for 4 pages, but it explains the mutual confusion at least.

I'm not sure. Perhaps the idea is that once it is seen that the British have made a commitment to leaving some fuel in the ground, our wayward subjects in the Colonies will see the error of their ways and ditch natural gas development in favour of cooking with animal dung.

 

[1927]

I'm beginning to wonder whether we've both been making the same point for 4 pages, but it explains the mutual confusion at least.

I'm not sure. Perhaps the idea is that once it is seen that the British have made a commitment to leaving some fuel in the ground, our wayward subjects in the Colonies will see the error of their ways and ditch natural gas development in favour of cooking with animal dung.

I did wonder. I apologise.

There’s a planning committee meeting in Merthyr this week to decide if they can extend their planning to extract an extra 240,000 tonnes of coal to supply Port Talbot steel works. If it’s refused there’s a real likelihood steel production will cease. The steel will still be needed so production will just shift oversees where environmental controls are not as tight, and thousands of Welsh jobs will be lost. The Stop Oil protests ultimately will not help climate control but will just shift emissions and jobs abroad.

 

[8ball]

I did wonder. I apologise.

There’s a planning committee meeting in Merthyr this week to decide if they can extend their planning to extract an extra 240,000 tonnes of coal to supply Port Talbot steel works. If it’s refused there’s a real likelihood steel production will cease. The steel will still be needed so production will just shift oversees where environmental controls are not as tight, and thousands of Welsh jobs will be lost. The Stop Oil protests ultimately will not help climate control but will just shift emissions and jobs abroad.

Not sure what JSO would say regarding that point. I think many of them would prefer the UK gave up heavy industry altogether.

 

[friedaweed]

Not sure what JSO would say regarding that point. I think many of them would prefer the UK gave up heavy industry altogether.

Whilst China and Russia lead the race to the bottom.

 

[kabbes]

You guys get that changing the world involves the world changing, right?

 

[1927]

You guys get that changing the world involves the world changing, right?

THE WORLD, not just UK.

 

[kabbes]

THE WORLD, not just UK.

Oh okay, so the world changes but the UK stays the same. Got you.

 

[friedaweed]

You guys get that changing the world involves the world changing, right?

Aye, of course, but there's this ever so slight issue of a race to the bottom going on at the moment that looks like WW3.

 

[8ball]

Aye, of course, but there's this ever so slight issue of a race to the bottom going on at the moment that looks like WW3.

That’s a lot of carbon footprints getting negated over the longer term.

 

[kabbes]

Aye, of course, but there's this ever so slight issue of a race to the bottom going on at the moment that looks like WW3.

 

[friedaweed]

That’s a lot of carbon footprints getting negated over the longer term.

I kinda think that's the more likely answer. We can all burn ourselves to death and Gaia can get on with restoring herself long after our fuckwitted species is deed. At least then the snooker can carry on without interupt.....

 

[friedaweed]

No comprehendo amigo. I never got that emoji. It's too small for my varifocals.

 

[kabbes]

No comprehendo amigo. I never got that emoji. It's too small for my varifocals.

T’was a shrug.

The fact that there is some really bad shit going on doesn’t negate the need for change. If anything, it means that change has to be even more drastic!

 

[friedaweed]

T’was a shrug.

The fact that there is some really bad shit going on doesn’t negate the need for change. If anything, it means that change has to be even more drastic!

I totally agree my friend but it's not going to be accomplished on an orange snooker table.

I'm ready to do what needs to be done for the sake of my grandchildren but I can't find myself believing that the solution is walking up the hill from my village and going in the Miners Welfare Club and fucking with their snooker table.

I just would make it back home.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's true, but it doesn't mean that Rob Ray's point is not also true. The suffragettes certainly did not bring about the extension of the voting franchise to women by their action solely. But their actions, as well as the actions of many of fighters, feed into the wider campaign.

It goes back to what kabbes was saying, are these stunts of JSO going to suddenly cause the government to switch their minds, of course not. But that does not mean that they are completely useless or even counter productive as part of the wider struggle.

Also doesn't mean they are automatically helpful even if they bring a topic into the headlines temporarily.

As to whether the militant suffragettes who planted bombs and set fires helped their cause or hindered it, well you'll see differences of opinion on that among historians. Was it Pankhurst's lot or the likes of Fawcett and her followers who did the most to bring about change? And how was women's suffrage won in other countries? Sometimes boring things like making your case and building a base of support are what succeed.

Propaganda of the deed has a patchy record of success, to say the least. At least this modern social media version doesn't involve killing people. But it still has the potential to make life that little bit more shit for everyone while achieving the square root of fuck all.

 

[friedaweed]

Also doesn't mean they are automatically helpful even if they bring a topic into the headlines temporarily.

As to whether the militant suffragettes who planted bombs and set fires helped their cause or hindered it, well you'll see differences of opinion on that among historians. Was it Pankhurst's lot or the likes of Fawcett and her followers who did the most to bring about change? And how was women's suffrage won in other countries? Sometimes boring things like making your case and building a base of support are what succeed.

Propaganda of the deed has a patchy record of success, to say the least. At least this modern social media version doesn't involve killing people. But it still has the potential to make life that little bit more shit for everyone while achieving the square root of fuck all.

To be honest it's the social media concept that made me rebuff Robs similarities to the suffragettes. There was a reason they went to extreme lengths to get their cause on everyone's lips. By comparison XR and JSO are just writing graffiti in comparison.

 

[1927]

Oh okay, so the world changes but the UK stays the same. Got you.

That wasn’t what I said and you know it, but Twas easier to make a snide comment than to actually the point I am making I guess.

 

[tommers]

Can't wait for the World congress to make the decision to make these changes all at once across the whole world.

Any day now I imagine.

 

[lazythursday]

That wasn’t what I said and you know it, but Twas easier to make a snide comment than to actually the point I am making I guess.

I really don't understand the point you are making. There are enough fossil fuel extraction sites already in existence to get us through the transition. We can't burn all the fuel that's already accessible. How is there any possible argument for new developments in the UK? Other than some kind of nationalistic 'well I'm not stopping till [insert country] does'?

 

[kabbes]

Yeah, agreed. If the point wasn't that "the UK shouldn't change until everybody else does" then what was the point?

 

[ddraig]

classic "but what about China" excuse

 

[LDC]

Basic rule of thumb of early 90s direct action was "will what we do cost them more than what they would have stood to make?".

For sure chilango, but also discussions other dynamics around 'building a movement', public/local support and repression came into play sometimes as well.

I mean I guess that's one of the things that's odd about JSO/XR etc. nothing like costing the targets financially comes into play, it's the pure spectacle of the thing. It's a bit like they're seem some other types of action and stunts being done and just copied the imagery of it without getting the context and background.

I mean I know they have some 'strategy' worked out (all that 3%/mobilisation stuff from Chenoweth etc.) but it's vacuous and like you said it seems to be decoupled from the middle bit of what gets us from here to there.

I get JSO/XR aren't bothered about public opinion and it does seem to be about keeping the topic in the media and public eye, but on some level the more divorced the action from the issue the more it looks desperate and weak rather than being something done from a position of strength, it is some of the same dynamics that drives people to individual spectacular acts of 'terrorism' imo. There is also the tricky issue of it making you look a bit bonkers and then the issue becoming something people associate (or the State/media gets to associate much easier) with fringe elements in society who are easily marginalised.

The mismatch between how serious it (climate) is and the ridiculousness of their stunts pisses me off personally. Like if it's as bad as they say they why the fuck aren't they taking more serious action?

I also think there are alternative strategies, the huge flaw with them is that they likely take maybe more time tha we have to avert the worst aspects of climate crisis, and also would need concerted long term hard work in workplaces, neighbourhoods, etc. which the left and broader activist left/scene just doesn't have the structure or strength or politics to engage in doing.

 

[chilango]

Yeah, all of that LDC.

It's all a bit Dibiaskyesque "I'm grateful we tried" right now.

 

[LDC]

Yeah, all of that LDC.

It's all a bit Dibiaskyesque "I'm grateful we tried" right now.

Had to Google that, good term!

Oh and this came up high in the results... go capitalism!

This New Balance 550 Is Literally Out of This World

Netflix and Sotheby’s have teamed up on an otherworldly New Balance 550, which literally features meteorite pieces on its upper. Fin out more here.

www.highsnobiety.com

"The custom “Dibiasky” 550s comprise 34 meteorite fragments featuring extra-terrestrial crystals of gleaming olivine and peridot, ranging in hues from emerald to amber. The crystals are the result of small chunks of the stony mantle becoming suspended in the molten metal of an asteroid’s iron-nickel core.

Basically, to commemorate the movie, Netflix put an actual meteorite on a New Balance shoe, making it perhaps the most special 550 to date. The shoe will be offered for £10,000, with all proceeds benefitting WWF in a bid to reduce human impact on the environment.

Don’t Look Up features Jennifer Lawrence and Leonardo DiCaprio, whose characters Kate Dibiasky, an astronomy grad student, and Professor Dr. Randall Mindy discover a comet that is on a direct collision course with Earth."

 

[edcraw]

 

[edcraw]

Because of course it’s the Sun and the Tories that are on the Tories that are on the side of working people.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

 

[chilango]

Worth comparing the coverage that one bloke sitting on a snooker table got versus the coverage that tens of thousands of people targeting the actual enemies in Westminster, Tufton Street etc. are getting.

 

[chilango]

I'm also just starting on Andreas Malm's "How to Blow Up a Pipeline". Despite some fairly staggering myopia about past ecological struggles, can't dispute his central argument so far.