Julie Burchill's attack on transsexuals...

[elbows]

I do not wish to fall out with anyone.

Dont worry, I dont want to fall out with you either. I have exhausted my point, although a lingering one remains that I dont want people to edit themselves on u75 specially. I want whats acceptable here to be whats commonly considered acceptable in a broader context, and that any challenges to things people say here be a way to explore this stuff rather than an overzealous attempt to enforce a standard that has nothing to do with how anyone actually talks about stuff in real life or how we think society should be.

Its certainly not your fault that labels are a mess these days, something of a prison has been made of language as a side-effect of fighting against a lot of shit terms were used for in the past. Many terms have been soiled in a manner that makes recycling them less than trivial to achieve, since the stench of their old meanings is not easy to completely wash away.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Although one would doubtless need to question what knowledge many newspaper columnists have of the lives of working class women beyond talking to their cleaner.

Someone needs to start compiling a list.

 

[elbows]

I like to think my experience of the subject is broad and deep.

Yes its very obvious that you would like to think that. However what you've actually demonstrated are the limitations of your experience.

 

[frogwoman]

cleanersplaining

 

[purenarcotic]

And some of the more mental ones also say that the whole growing acceptability of transsexuality is part of a conspiracy to stop people being lesbians.

What the fuck?!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Someone needs to start compiling a list.

Start?

(lists TheHoodedClaw as a fellow-traveller of liberals and other people who haven't been keeping lists since the rise of Thatcherism)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes its very obvious that you would like to think that. However what you've actually demonstrated are the limitations of your experience.

Meowwwwwwww!

 

[frogwoman]

What the fuck?!

yes i wish i was joking but i am not. go and look for yourself

 

[purenarcotic]

yes i wish i was joking but i am not. go and look for yourself

I just cannot compute it. It makes no sense!

 

[frogwoman]

I just cannot compute it. It makes no sense!

these are the people who have their womens festival with inspections at the gate to nab any imposters

 

[elbows]

Meowwwwwwww!

Indeed. Sorry about that, I really am done on that point now, I hope!

 

[purenarcotic]

these are the people who have their womens festival with inspections at the gate to nab any imposters

I find it so depressing. So utterly depressing.

 

[frogwoman]

I find it so depressing. So utterly depressing.

Its a fucking disgrace.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What the fuck?!

Basically making (or actually failing to make) the argument that some females who have gender reassignment to male are some form of repressed lesbian who can only feel right sleeping with other women once they (the "repressed lesbian") are in a male body. It's the worst kind of assumptive bullshit that's based on a theory rather than any sort of research with trans people.

And, of course, the likes of Bindel have no stake in preserving their own status quo, definitely not.

 

[purenarcotic]

Basically making (or actually failing to make) the argument that some females who have gender reassignment to male are some form of repressed lesbian who can only feel right sleeping with other women once they (the "repressed lesbian") are in a male body. It's the worst kind of assumptive bullshit that's based on a theory rather than any sort of research with trans people.

And, of course, the likes of Bindel have no stake in preserving their own status quo, definitely not.

What an absolute piece of nonsense. I am quite, quite disgusted.

 

[ViolentPanda]

these are the people who have their womens festival with inspections at the gate to nab any imposters

Because there's nothing even vaguely sinister about demanding a gyno-check on the gate, is there?

 

[maomao]

Moores picture disappeared from Burchills article half way through the day,possibly from a complaint by Moore.

Apparently being a close personal friend of Julie Burchill has damaged Suzanne Moore far more in my estimation than anything she could possibly say about any minority group.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What an absolute piece of nonsense. I am quite, quite disgusted.

Unfortunately, it's another classic example of why identity politics suck dog arse - everything gets reduced to what the loudest people in a particular identity group has to say, so someone like BIndel (who represents a minority of lesbians if she represents any at all besides herself), who is media-savvy and connected, can get more "airtime" for her (frankly offensive) views than more rational but less notorious speakers from a lesbian perspective can.

 

[equationgirl]

You know how the fash have Redwatch to name and shame commies and trade unionists?

RadFems now have Gender Identity Watch to "monitor organizations that push gender identity and thus engage in the erasure of female reality"

You think that's bad?

On the same website one of the top ten posts is 'useful feminist knowledge: safe home abortions'. I read the blogpost - and I'm not posting the link because if you want to read, go look for it, it's nothing I want to link to.

 

[Sirena]

Yes its very obvious that you would like to think that. However what you've actually demonstrated are the limitations of your experience.

Whatever. Now perhaps we can let it go....

 

[equationgirl]

What an absolute piece of nonsense. I am quite, quite disgusted.

You're not the only one, sadly. It makes me ashamed to be a feminist, the way this radfem lot carry on.

 

[smokedout]

well Bindel's been supporting Burchill on twitter saying it was a long time coming after the "hatred doled out by some trans" = and of course theres never been any provocation for this: http://twanzphobic.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/tootsie-of-the-week-give-it-up-keith/#more-3113

 

[purenarcotic]

You think that's bad?

On the same website one of the top ten posts is 'useful feminist knowledge: safe home abortions'. I read the blogpost - and I'm not posting the link because if you want to read, go look for it, it's nothing I want to link to.

What fucks me off about that is the angle it's coming from; rather than saying should abortion laws change we should be massively collectivising to stand up against this, it's basically saying 'let's lie down and take it, so here's some non properly tested alternatives'. It's all wrong.

 

[frogwoman]

its nationalism. its concerned with keeping people out rather than what feminism is really about. they also really hate bdsm and hate heterosexual women as well.

 

[Balbi]

That gender identity watch site is, well, it's pretty something.

http://genderidentitywatch.wordpress.com/about/

The comments

 

[Fedayn]

Seems Julie has form, from 2001.

 

[Firky]

You think that's bad?

On the same website one of the top ten posts is 'useful feminist knowledge: safe home abortions'. I read the blogpost - and I'm not posting the link because if you want to read, go look for it, it's nothing I want to link to.

Evolution in action.

 

[frogwoman]

http://twanzphobic.wordpress.com/

is pretty much a far-right site. its the exact same as writing "homophobic since forever" and dressing it up in some sort of progressive garb.

 

[Balbi]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuucking hell. I'm in the predator class.

AWESOME.

 

[equationgirl]

well Bindel's been supporting Burchill on twitter saying it was a long time coming after the "hatred doled out by some trans" = and of course theres never been any provocation for this: http://twanzphobic.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/tootsie-of-the-week-give-it-up-keith/#more-3113

That's a hateful vile blog.