Julie Burchill's attack on transsexuals...

[frogwoman]

And some of the more mental ones also say that the whole growing acceptability of transsexuality is part of a conspiracy to stop people being lesbians.

 

[Balbi]

Greer's "man in a frock" comments come about now, rightz.

 

[equationgirl]

Their argument is that transsexual women (sorry, i dont know the correct term) aren't really women but are merely imposters and probably perverts who just want to pretend to be women to get access to "women only spaces", they are not really oppressed (which is complete and utter bullshit, plenty of transphobic attacks have resulted in death, plenty of people are disowned by their families for wishing to become a different sex) and transsexual men are self-hating women who have been indoctrinated by a sexist culture so that they have become "traitors" to their sex. It is mental.

 

[frogwoman]

Greer's "man in a frock" comments come about now, rightz.

Yeah that's what they go on, they argue that the modern feminist movement has abandoned "true feminism" as talked about by Greer, Dworkin etc (who iirc never even went this far), they also say that the fact that it's becoming acceptable for women to become men is part of a conspiracy to write lesbianism out of existence, by saying that the only true way you can be a lesbian is to become a man. It is frightening stuff.

 

[frogwoman]

the fact that a lot of mtf transsexuals eventually marry men (trans or otherwise) never occurs to them, no they're all just perverts and probably rapists

 

[Firky]

And some of the more mental ones also say that the whole growing acceptability of transsexuality is part of a conspiracy to stop people being lesbians.

I had to read that three times and it still made no fucking sense. So I read it upside down in the mirror and now it makes much more sense.

 

[frogwoman]

I had to read that three times and it still made no fucking sense. So I read it upside down in the mirror and now it makes much more sense.

Their argument is that they're (the conspiracy) trying to make it unacceptable for a woman to be gay unless they've turned themselves into a man first.

 

[Firky]

I know what their argument is, it's totally fucking hat stand and it makes no sense.

 

[frogwoman]

Yes but you're a man so you would say that. Surprised they haven't come up with their own version of the Protocols tbh.

 

[stuff_it]

And some of the more mental ones also say that the whole growing acceptability of transsexuality is part of a conspiracy to stop people being lesbians.

Please tell me you have a link.

 

[frogwoman]

If you google "radfemhub" or "bug*brennan" the more mental stuff is there. Dont want to entice them here though because they have been known to stalk and harass people on the internet.

 

[bi0boy]

You know how the fash have Redwatch to name and shame commies and trade unionists?

RadFems now have Gender Identity Watch to "monitor organizations that push gender identity and thus engage in the erasure of female reality"

 

[Firky]

Yes but you're a man so you would say that. Surprised they haven't come up with their own version of the Protocols tbh.

STFU or I'll oppress you.

etc.

 

[stuff_it]

If you google "radfemhub" or "bug*brennan" the more mental stuff is there. Dont want to entice them here though because they have been known to stalk and harass people on the internet.

I don't have time to look through any of that properly, but it's enough to make me never claim to be a feminist lest someone get the wrong end of the stick and think I'm in with them lot. Lol.

You couldn't make it up.

 

[Firky]

You know how the fash have Redwatch to name and shame commies and trade unionists?

RadFems now have Gender Identity Watch to "monitor organizations that push gender identity and thus engage in the erasure of female reality"

We know but we don't link to such places like that because they come here. Don't you remember the board wars back when all we had was dialup to fire our arsenal from?

Link... edit

 

[stuff_it]

We know but we don't link to such places like that because they come here. Don't you remember the board wars back when all we had was dialup to fire our arsenal from?

Link... edit

Ah, but now we have broadband and a large contingent of unemployed. Muahahahah.

 

[sunny jim]

The only winners are the Guardian with tens of thousands of eyeballs on adverts in less than 24 hours.

How many of them have Adblock though?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's a pretty fringe position and everybody I know is embarrassed by it.

What's new to me is newspaper columnists claiming to be oppressed by the trans lobby who all have it really easy and if they were real working class women they'd know what being oppressed really meant.

 

[frogwoman]

How the fuck do trans people have it easy though? It's pretty much one of the last acceptable prejudices. You hear that shit about "trannies" all the time there's even somebody going on about it on this thread.

 

[Firky]

How many of them have Adblock though?

The advert is still requested from the website but is blocked client side. If it didn't do that then the likes of Chrome would not support it as it would be counterproductive.

 

[LiamO]

i go the transphobia but it was the subtle racist undertones which really made it a standout line imo

Wtf?

Surely her point is that the black & white minstrels are not really black and transexuals are not really women. Whether you find that insightful or inciteful... are you seriously suggesting it is racist?

 

[elbows]

How the fuck do trans people have it easy though? It's pretty much one of the last acceptable prejudices. You hear that shit about "trannies" all the time there's even somebody going on about it on this thread.

Yep, and because of this wider phenomenon I'd actually expected more stupid comments in this thread by now.

Just days ago we were able to happily explore the downsides of identity politics in a rewarding and entertaining way, including Moore pointing out its rectal destination. But trans issues point rather starkly to the limitations of how and how far people should push against the identity shit, vulnerable groups can be trampled on in the process and vile agendas served if this stuff is done wrong. For example I am suspicious about people I am now seeing on twitter complaining about the priorities of people complaining about the Burchill article, when just the other day I was able to go on about priorities myself. I hope something positive can come out of the stinky depths beast that suddenly evolved out of the commentariat privilege checkings of mass destruction.

 

[binka]

Wtf?

Surely her point is that the black & white minstrels are not really black and transexuals are not really women. Whether you find that insightful or inciteful... are you seriously suggesting it is racist?

no it was that they aren't really black so what could they possibly tell usain bolt about running

 

[stuff_it]

no it was that they aren't really black so what could they possibly tell usain bolt about running

That doesn't even make any sense.

 

[Sirena]

How the fuck do trans people have it easy though? It's pretty much one of the last acceptable prejudices. You hear that shit about "trannies" all the time there's even somebody going on about it on this thread.

That was me, probably. But if you know a few trannies, you'll know trannies are happy to use the word tranny.

 

[elbows]

That was me, probably. But if you know a few trannies, you'll know trannies are happy to use the word tranny.

Shedding light on an issue by putting your foot right in it is what that sounds like to me.

As if I should need to explain the difference between some people choosing to reclaim a label or use it in a certain safe context themselves, and other people still using it in an old, bigoted context.

 

[Sirena]

Shedding light on an issue by putting your foot right in it is what that sounds like to me.

As if I should need to explain the difference between some people choosing to reclaim a label or use it in a certain safe context themselves, and other people still using it in an old, bigoted context.

Whatever. But it is interesting that all this Julie Burchill poison should come up only a few weeks after the great role model for all trannies (or 'trans-women' as no-one calls them) April Ashley deservedly got an MBE for her campaigning work over the decades

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-20708017

 

[elbows]

Whatever me if you like, it doesnt change the fact that people ignore the difference between relaxed, personal, safe, warm use of language and labels and the use of the same labels in a wider, cold, public generalised way at their peril.

 

[bi0boy]

That was me, probably. But if you know a few trannies, you'll know trannies are happy to use the word tranny.

The fact is the majority of trans people find it offensive.

 

[Sirena]

The fact is the majority of trans people find it offensive.

Then your experience (I trust you have a wide experience of the subject...?) is different to mine. If you look at the Way Out website (probably the main tranny night-out in London), you will note that organiser Vicky Lee, who is incidentally a friend of mine, is happy to use the word.