Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
i think if the issue is over the contextual use of the word, then having clarified that Sirena is not using it derogatorily, it's probably alright to just get on with things..?
Julie Burchill's attack on transsexuals...
- Thread starter stuff_it
- Start date
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
I does sound a bit derogatory. I think it's the 'i' ending, like Paki, or fanny.
rosecore
Well-Known Member
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
That's one person who makes a big thing out of it as a career. Most trangendered people just feel a need to be a different sex than they were born with, my friend was in tears because the benefits agency wouldn't change their claim to female while they were recovering from their surgery and on ESA. Their passport, bank, hospital records etc were all changed but it took a lot of arsing about to get the benefits people to change it and it was implied that any job they got after they would have to fill in the form as Mr X as well. All while they were recovering from painful surgery. Left her properly in bits. I seriously doubt it would have been a good time to call her a tranny.
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
There's a wee fragment in that story that demonstrates the commitment, certainty and courage that must be needed in order to fit your body's outward sexual characteristics to match the sex that is your inner being:
Obviously the odds of surgical death are different nowadays, but that doesn't reduce the need for commitment, courage and certainty much.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Wasn't Boy George a gender-bender rather than a transexual? Although, that was the eighties.
bi0boy
Power User
You realise most transsexuals regard themselves as men or women and generally live as 'stealth'? The word "tranny" generally has a specific meaning associated with women who are out as trans and also with transvestites, drag queens and the club scene you allude to. To use it to refer to all trans people as you did is not appropriate.
Jollity Farm
Active Member
How very odd to say "no-one" calls trans women "trans women". Lots of people do. And, as I suggested in my previous post, if one has been told that a term is offensive, the decent person thing to do would be to say "I'm sorry, I didn't realise" and not to say it around the people who don't like it.
In other news, I am happy to call myself queer, but I know a number of other gay/bi/generally not-straight folk who don't like the term, finding it offensive and derogatory. So, because they are my friends and I don't wish to upset them, I don't use the term towards them or in front of them. It's not so hard.
In other news, I am happy to call myself queer, but I know a number of other gay/bi/generally not-straight folk who don't like the term, finding it offensive and derogatory. So, because they are my friends and I don't wish to upset them, I don't use the term towards them or in front of them. It's not so hard.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
I agree with that. She was only the second British transsexual and, possibly, in the first 5 or 6 in the world to go through that process. In the 1930s, Lili Elbe died from experimental sex-change surgery. But April Ashley was lucky in that her surgeon had devised the technique that is still used today.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
No it isn't.
elbows
Well-Known Member
I would hazard a guess that the mistake being made is to confuse the scene that is happy to identify with the term tranny with the entire trans spectrum and those who find themselves touched by gender issues in some way. It doesnt help that this sort of mistake stumbles directly into the historical bigotry, prejudice, misconceptions etc that still plague a decent understanding of gender issues to this day. It can cause friction within the trans community, and one way to stand a chance of retaining solidarity within that group, let alone beyond it, is for people to accept that they should retreat to the safest, most widely acceptable and all-encompassing labels available. People can call themselves whatever they like, but they have to be careful before calling anyone else anything, a similar problem to the commentariat soiling themselves when claiming to speak on behalf of an entire, broad group.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
elbows
Well-Known Member
Trying to make out that its just a few wacky sensitive non-transsexuals on these boards that could possibly have a problem with the term is not the best way to get me to leave it alone.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
i don't necessarily agree. personally i think that all manner of people place too much importance on linguistical labels which essentially don't mean anything, and in practice placing that importance on words makes for awkward conversations which dart around the issues and focus on style rather than content. this is a bad trend on the whole and actually, i think it needs to be challenged.
i can understand stuff_it's friend's problem with the benefits agency as that's a legal institution refusing to recognize their gender, rather than just generally a word which is sometimes used in a well-intentioned way and sometimes not.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
it's not about blame, it's about disagreeing with them
ETA
i should clarify that i'm not in favour of just using words people don't like in principle, just to prove a point - just that 'offence' is part of an increasing overrall trend by which masses of innocuous words are being 'proscribed' or labelled risque... it not only ignores the fundamental nature of language (in that its fluid, ever-changing and basically an incredibly crude tool by which to generally express the abstract concepts floating around in our heads) but also engages in a battle which can't be won.
ETA
i should clarify that i'm not in favour of just using words people don't like in principle, just to prove a point - just that 'offence' is part of an increasing overrall trend by which masses of innocuous words are being 'proscribed' or labelled risque... it not only ignores the fundamental nature of language (in that its fluid, ever-changing and basically an incredibly crude tool by which to generally express the abstract concepts floating around in our heads) but also engages in a battle which can't be won.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
I thought I had given an illustration that, in a broadly supportive context, the use of the word I have vowed not to use is acceptable. It may not be acceptable in a confrontational context or where it is obviously being used in a derogatory way, but the community is not so politicised that it has gone totally into greyspeak. Some will obviously prefer the formal 'transgender' or 'transsexual' (I have never heard anyone refer to themselves as a 'trans-woman' - i think that term is used by commentators) but, as I say, I do not wish to fall out with anyone.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
If I was Ms Moore I think I'd be less than pleased about the way Julie B has waded in on my behalf. Seems to me that her meddling has made everything a whole lot worse.
bi0boy
Power User
It's not though. It's only acceptable in the very specific circumstance you appear to be familiar with.
Moores picture disappeared from Burchills article half way through the day,possibly from a complaint by Moore.
Sirena
Don't monkey with the buzzsaw
I like to think my experience of the subject is broad and deep. You would obviously like wikipedia links (for without such, nothing can be true...) but I can only offer that you hang out with me one weekend or another.....
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Although one would doubtless need to question what knowledge many newspaper columnists have of the lives of working class women beyond talking to their cleaner.
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