cesare
shady's dreams ♥
And, further, the process of going from cunt to not-cunt may rely on interventions of "oi, stop being a cunt".
Joey Barton and Dietmar Hamann cover themselves in glory in Twitter spat
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And, further, the process of going from cunt to not-cunt may rely on interventions of "oi, stop being a cunt".
That's the point. I think - and can find plenty of evidence to show - that he is indeed trying to change and grow. That evidence is available for anyone else to inspect but instead they choose to ignore it and just say 'he's a cunt'.
Like most people on that journey he will occasionally fuck up... sometimes badly - as he did this week. That does not alter his trajectory.
He may not get there but what an example if he does. Who would troubled kids be most likely to listen to? Joey Barton or, say, Gary Lineker? Craig Bellamy or (insert moralising antiseptic footballer/pundit of your choice here).
This answer is mostly for Dearg, I think.
Joey Barton, yesterday.
said The Man From The Daily Mail.
I'm still embarrassed for you tbhYes. But it would have to come from a place of love and respect wouldn't it? As we have seen (repeatedly) he responds badly to finger-wagging.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
post 208.said The Man From The Daily Mail.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Bit of a chicken and egg situation with love and respect, eh. And not all criticism is finger-wagging. But yeah unless there's some sort of Damascene moment there might just be a gradual realisation that cuntish behaviour only gets lauded by cunts. Or a bigger cunt out-cunts him.
Reminds me of life lessons taught to me by my dad when I was a kid, which was pretty much along the lines of "take out the biggest bastard with disproportionate force". But he was only in his late 20s/early 30s in those days and he's had plenty of time to mellow.
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CRAIG BELLAMY FOUNDATION
Craig Bellamy's recompense for youthful indiscipline was to use his own money to set up a football foundation in Sierra Leone. When he was at Newcastle he tried to help a drug-addicted friend by taking him out of his environment in Cardiff and moving him in with his family. I don't know if Craig's on Twitter, but I haven't heard of him making any 'cuntish' remarks about the unemployed or people 'doing the double'.
Bellamy is no saint, but I'd rate him quite a bit higher than Barton in terms of altruism and contrition for past indiscretions.
Deareg
Well-Known Member
No problem, I am off to Brighton soon for the launch of Dave's book, will reply myself when I can.
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Would be nice if he got the name right, though. dearg
Lol. You halfwit.
Dearg is Irish for red.
Dearg is what Deareg would be known as if he hadn't made a typo in his name when he was registering and never knew how to change it.
Anyway we don't need your stinky saxon vowels... we have our own empathetic ones. Like in film. Or Dearg.
Dexter - the Man From The Daily Mail.
Enjoy your weekend and best regards to any old comrades.
Plenty of time for Joey then?
Two things worth exploring here, I'll get back to you.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
I'm Scots, you twat. If you're trying to suck his cock by playing with a language not used on urban, don't expect non-fucking-Gaelic speakers to know about your love letters. Saxons, afaik, are generally English, so even if I were, you're just pointing out I couldn't know that.Lol. You halfwit.
Dearg is Irish for red.
Dearg is what Deareg would be known as if he hadn't made a typo in his name when he was registering and never knew how to change it.
Anyway we don't need your stinky saxon vowels... we have our own empathetic ones. Like in film. Or Dearg.
Dexter - the Man From The Daily Mail.
Unlike yourself, if I was trying to be a dick to someone, I wouldn't bring up their ancestry, heritage or nationality. I'd just do it to their face. And you come across as a dick...constantly talking about the old ways of settling shit, beating up paedos, natural justice, 'pub discussions'.
'oooh...barton may have been constantly involved in violent assaults...but he could be alright...honest...don't give up on him lads!'
Like I said...you're talking about yourself, it's transparent.
Also
If you make a daily mail slur against me, and I reply with something that rips the piss out of it with their own link...have the decency to acknowledge it.
Like a man would.
I'm Scots, you twat. If you're trying to suck his cock by playing with a language not used on urban, don't expect non-fucking-Gaelic speakers to know about your love letters. Saxons, afaik, are generally English, so even if I were, you're just pointing out I couldn't know that.
Unlike yourself, if I was trying to be a dick to someone, I wouldn't bring up their ancestry, heritage or nationality. I'd just do it to their face. And you come across as a dick...constantly talking about the old ways of settling shit, beating up paedos, natural justice, 'pub discussions'.
'oooh...barton may have been constantly involved in violent assaults...but he could be alright...honest...don't give up on him lads!'
Like I said...you're talking about yourself, it's transparent.
Also
If you make a daily mail slur against me, and I reply with something that rips the piss out of it with their own link...have the decency to acknowledge it.
Like a man would.
Sorry. had to quote that in it's entirity before you sober up and edit.
Sorry. had to quote that in it's entirity before you sober up and edit.
Sorry meant to say in all it's Barton-esque glory. Joey would be proud of that one.
You sham.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
its*
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Is that what the elongation of this thread is about Liam, so that you can provoke the desired reaction in order to prove your point about 'Pal Joey'?
Deary me.
Dexter,
at the start of this thread I said clearly that this was not about Joe Barton at all really. It was, for me, about my bewilderment and exasperation at the comic travesty that people 'of the left' are these days so keen to ape their Daily Mail counterparts in their rush to sensationalise, to tabloid-ise, to condemn, to finger-wag and to join the pitchfork mob.
Such is the omnipotent seductive power of celeb/victim/gossip porn that people seem simply unable to resist it. I opined that surely Urban should be a little different. A place where the spirit of investigation, of questioning everything the right-wing tabloids produce and especially how things are framed by them is the default setting.
Instead it (with, it must be said, many honourable individual exceptions) simply reflects and mirrors the worst excesses of the society most on here would claim they want to fundamentally change. A breeding ground for sensationalist hate and where wannabe fools pop up... not to express their opinion... or to argue their corner...but for a quick over-the-shoulder-of-the-protagonists' snipe... before scurrying off to see what other snippets of completely de-contextualised gossip they can twist and contort into fuel for the pitch-forkers bonfire.
Apparently it's all projection.
Well there has been an awful lot of that on this thread and it has not come from me.
at the start of this thread I said clearly that this was not about Joe Barton at all really. It was, for me, about my bewilderment and exasperation at the comic travesty that people 'of the left' are these days so keen to ape their Daily Mail counterparts in their rush to sensationalise, to tabloid-ise, to condemn, to finger-wag and to join the pitchfork mob.
Such is the omnipotent seductive power of celeb/victim/gossip porn that people seem simply unable to resist it. I opined that surely Urban should be a little different. A place where the spirit of investigation, of questioning everything the right-wing tabloids produce and especially how things are framed by them is the default setting.
Instead it (with, it must be said, many honourable individual exceptions) simply reflects and mirrors the worst excesses of the society most on here would claim they want to fundamentally change. A breeding ground for sensationalist hate and where wannabe fools pop up... not to express their opinion... or to argue their corner...but for a quick over-the-shoulder-of-the-protagonists' snipe... before scurrying off to see what other snippets of completely de-contextualised gossip they can twist and contort into fuel for the pitch-forkers bonfire.
Apparently it's all projection.
Well there has been an awful lot of that on this thread and it has not come from me.
You posted this on the Chelsea thread...
... didn't you?
Let's just examine that for a moment. A long-time avowed socialist... an inheritor of a proud tradition of free-thinking... from Robert Owen to John McLean, Jimmy Gallagher, Jimmy Reid and Mick McGahey... goes to a website that contains this...
and you selected this... to pass on as representative of his posts
So NOT like John McLean... sooo like Tommy Sheridan.
Of course you did this to encourage other (unfortunately for you, perhaps more rounded) posters to round on your whipping boy, Barton. Your feeble attempt to fuel the feeding frenzy failed and you slunk off.
To be fair, it's not about you. It's about how bad things are when all the left can do is mimic the worst aspects of the right. But you did provide a perfect example.
You condemn Joey Barton for his provocative, tabloid/reactionary twitterings... for twisting things... and you indulge your self-righteousness by doing exactly the same thing yourself. But that's OK cos 'he's a cunt'.
Hypocrite.
Misanthrope.
I'm done with you. I will now find somebody reasonable - like Wilf, Dearg or Cesare - to engage/debate/discuss with. People prepared to actually contribute, rather than snipe. People who state positions that provoke reasoned reflection not rabid ranting.
... didn't you?
Let's just examine that for a moment. A long-time avowed socialist... an inheritor of a proud tradition of free-thinking... from Robert Owen to John McLean, Jimmy Gallagher, Jimmy Reid and Mick McGahey... goes to a website that contains this...
and you selected this... to pass on as representative of his posts
So NOT like John McLean... sooo like Tommy Sheridan.
Of course you did this to encourage other (unfortunately for you, perhaps more rounded) posters to round on your whipping boy, Barton. Your feeble attempt to fuel the feeding frenzy failed and you slunk off.
To be fair, it's not about you. It's about how bad things are when all the left can do is mimic the worst aspects of the right. But you did provide a perfect example.
You condemn Joey Barton for his provocative, tabloid/reactionary twitterings... for twisting things... and you indulge your self-righteousness by doing exactly the same thing yourself. But that's OK cos 'he's a cunt'.
Hypocrite.
Misanthrope.
I'm done with you. I will now find somebody reasonable - like Wilf, Dearg or Cesare - to engage/debate/discuss with. People prepared to actually contribute, rather than snipe. People who state positions that provoke reasoned reflection not rabid ranting.
I assume this is what you wish I had posted.... somewhere... ever..
Please provide even one example of this? Just one will do. Pure projection.
PS That does not include cutting a partial sentence where I have written stuff decrying the mob mentality and presenting that as evidence that I support it.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
ditto
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Skipping past anything that is not relevant to his personal thesis on Joey Barton, Liam conducts an argument with his own ego and subsequently declares that he's now 'done' with himself. 
Remember if you will that the original intended gambit was going to be 'middle-class lefties v salt of the earth working class boy' until Deareg and me appeared to be supporting the other side on this thread. He can't exactly slag us off as being 'middle-class' having shared membership of the same political organisations, so he embarks on a twisting of the facts around Barton, re-examines legal cases and video evidence and attempts to elicit a response similar to Barton's from those who argue against his obvious wisdom on this thread.
Who needs therapy more, Joey or Liam?
Remember if you will that the original intended gambit was going to be 'middle-class lefties v salt of the earth working class boy' until Deareg and me appeared to be supporting the other side on this thread. He can't exactly slag us off as being 'middle-class' having shared membership of the same political organisations, so he embarks on a twisting of the facts around Barton, re-examines legal cases and video evidence and attempts to elicit a response similar to Barton's from those who argue against his obvious wisdom on this thread.
Who needs therapy more, Joey or Liam?
That's right. Joey Barton has never been arrested and jailed for drug offences - only for petty violence.
I know which one would have been more roundly condemned in Johnny's community in the 60's.Seriously though, YouSir, the more I think about this the more I am convinced it is a valid comparison.
To be clear I am NOT comparing Joey to Johnny - especially the latter years of Johnny's life when he journeyed from troubled soul to soul of the people. I am drawing what I believe to be valid comparisons between their situations, not their personalities/abilities etc.
But let's remember that Johnny had his wild days and his 'Fat Elvis' years too. For years Johnny was a pariah. Shunned by the industry for his behaviour (well more for getting caught really); laughed at and scorned by 'cool' rock & rollers for his cheesy cabaret act and corny Gospel shows.
Johnny's journey from lounge-lizard joke act to spokesman for a generation was a long and troubled one - one that took him substantially longer than his meteoric initial rise and subsequent crash and burn. Fortunately he had the support - and the balls - to make it, despite all the setbacks and despite all the judgemental sniping along the way.
But he would have been subject to a damn site more 'what a cunt' (well more 'what an asshole')/ 'he's just a low-life'/'put him back in jail with all the criminals he loves' comments and dismissals than joey Barton is ever likely to face. How many people at the time wrote him of with 'Fuck him anyway... he had everything a man could want and he threw it all away... over and over again'.
I don't know if Joey Barton will continue his journey or where it will end, but he apparently knows he is on one.
