Joey Barton and Dietmar Hamann cover themselves in glory in Twitter spat

[LiamO]

I said I'd return to your thought-provoking post Cesare so...

Bit of a chicken and egg situation with love and respect, eh.

Indeed.

But the only person/party who can actually make the gesture; to extend the hand of friendship; to make the move to break the cycle is the one who is actually capable of doing it.

This is very often not the person who most people (certainly the mob) feel should make that gesture because, quite simply, they are not capable of making it.

If you talk to anyone who has a loved one with any excessive behaviour or addiction (whether to drink, drugs, gambling, sex, porn, violence, whatever) in their family or in their care they will tell you how often their good wishes and their love was thrown back in their faces. But they kept offering it. Because they could.

Conversely if you read biographies of many who made it back from the abysss they will inevitably tell of one person, of one moment of clarity, one moment of pure love amongst the wreckage of their lives that was a turning point.

I have yet to read anywhere of one single person who turned their life around because enough people called them a cunt. Not one. Ever.

 

[LiamO]

But yeah unless there's some sort of Damascene moment there might just be a gradual realisation

TBF I think a 'Damascene moment' describes just such a moment of clarity. However the popular misconception is that this moment represents a sudden conversion, a volte-face, rather than just a tipping point or epiphany when the subject 'sees' the real issue for the first time. There is still a long road, with many a detour and dead end along the way, to travel after that.

AFAIK Saul was running around persecuting (and crucifying!) Christians. I would imagine it took a bit more than (whatever was the Judean equivalent of) a few right-on tweets to rehabilitate him with those he has been torturing. But he had to start somewhere.

 

[DotCommunist]

are you suggesting we should temporarily blind Joey until he comes to his senses?

 

[LiamO]

are you suggesting we should temporarily blind Joey until he comes to his senses?

I had forgotten that bit of the story! But as the whole thing is apparently a metaphor anyway I think perhaps the inference is that he is already blind - as in 'There is none so blind as those who do not want to see'.

 

[framed]

9 pages about yourself and a mirror is really quite some going Liam.

Please carry on, this thread has been 'popcorn time' for me.

 

[cesare]

Hi Liam

I can see that you want to carry on talking about this and that's fair enough. Please don't think I'm being deliberately rude by not replying to where you've quoted me - I'm not. It's just that I don't know enough about this bloke to contribute anything more except in general terms and I'm not sure that's useful.

Fwiw I find his comments about benefits claimants more offensive than the violence aspect - but there again I only know what I've seen posted on this thread and I don't have sufficient attachment to look at all the twitter feeds etc.

 

[framed]

Maybe when Liam is the last man standing on this thread he can declare himself 'the winner' ?

Keep going Champ - You can do it!

Give us another page

 

[LiamO]

Hi Liam

I can see that you want to carry on talking about this and that's fair enough. Please don't think I'm being deliberately rude by not replying to where you've quoted me - I'm not. It's just that I don't know enough about this bloke to contribute anything more except in general terms and I'm not sure that's useful.

Fwiw I find his comments about benefits claimants more offensive than the violence aspect - but there again I only know what I've seen posted on this thread and I don't have sufficient attachment to look at all the twitter feeds etc.

 

[DotCommunist]

 

[LiamO]

It's just that I don't know enough about this bloke to contribute anything more except in general terms and I'm not sure that's useful.

Hi Cesare

I'd be glad to discuss this in general terms as it goes - I've been saying since page 2 this is, for me at any rate, about a general malaise rather than J Barton. But if you'd rather not, that's OK too.

Fwiw I find his comments about benefits claimants more offensive than the violence aspect

Me too. That's why I called his antics 'a cunt's trick'. Though I did wonder what his old friend/associate had posted to prompt him to do that. Nobody looked AFAIK and nor did I. Actually I suspect some people probably did look and having discovered stuff that did not serve their absolutist position, they just ignored it.

I was also puzzled by his later posts about lifestyle choices etc and went to his twitter in search context.

Providing that context is, for some posters, exactly the same as defending him.

FWIW his comments were aimed, as far as I could see, at some individuals - known to him and in a pissy exchange with him - rather than at people on the social in general. Of course, it would be more helpful if he showed more awareness of how his comments might be perceived by others... but then the frothers would have to look harder for something to froth about.

 

[LiamO]

It's not a matter of backing down dotty.

I can't 'back down' from defending Barton's comments because, despite the insistence of some posters, I never actually stepped up in the first place. So I don't have an absolutist position to defend. I have strong views, weakly held on this matter. I'm open to persuasion but, with some exceptions, mostly it has been abuse for a position I don't actually hold and have never held.

What I do have is a willingness to poke around and explore a phenomenon (judgemental, moralising frothing) and the actions and reactions of a flawed personality (J Barton).

I recognise that I am as prone as anyone else to the former and I would not claim to be any more perfect than the latter.

 

[framed]

 

[DotCommunist]

I had forgotten that bit of the story! But as the whole thing is apparently a metaphor anyway I think perhaps the inference is that he is already blind - as in 'There is none so blind as those who do not want to see'.

I used to be able to recite the entire passage, preacher style. From the NIV bible. It's not really sold as allegory or metaphor tbh. Although any interpretation of a text is valid so long as you can make a convincing fist of it and I'd buy yours there.

Mind, prod tradition, baptist at that. Theres no allegory n prod sunday school. Which leaves god looking like a right cunt in Job

 

[LiamO]

I really must get round to reading 'Hero with 1000 Faces' this year.

“Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.” ― Joseph Campbell, Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor

Have you read it yourself? Just when you are perfectly comfortable with your own (essentially fundamentalist) rejection of it all as fundamentalist bollocks... when you can wallow in self-righteous, two-dimensional stone-throwing... at the other self-righteous stone-throwers on the other side... who you know are sooooo different from you...some awkward bastard comes along and says ooh look... a third dimension.

Little wonder both sets of fundies hate Campbell

 

[butchersapron]

Barton is a shit Ronnie O' Sullivan

 

[Big Gunz]

Latest from the attention seeking troll. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz...r-is-a-smack-addiction-waiting-to-happen.html

He probably has a point though.

 

[editor]

Barton's just desperate now. Useless twat that he is.

 

[Big Gunz]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...orcing-parents-children-home-seeing-idol.html

 

[Maltin]

Barton calls Thiago Silva an overweight ladyboy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22022259

 

[agricola]

Barton calls Thiago Silva an overweight ladyboy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22022259

One has to say that its amazing how he can manage to repeatedly make himself look more and more of a clown as time goes on. What will he be like when he is 36?

 

[Dan U]

Yeah he is a tit. He pretends to be better than this kind of stuff but fucks it up.

I hope the guardian cringe every time he does this shit. Anyone remember that fawning crap they did with him in a gallery? Like some kind of working class renaissance man rather than a massive cunt.

 

[skyscraper101]

 

[gabi]

Mental. Its the kind of tweeting which might be able to be excused if the tweeter was a bit pissed. But Barton gave up booze years ago.

Silva's comments were bizarre in the first place mind you.

 

[DexterTCN]

Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton

5 May​

Yes, for those of you asking I will almost certainly manage when I stop playing. Reckon I've got about 8/9 years left at the top!

Expand

• Reply
• Retweet
• Favorite
• More