Joey Barton and Dietmar Hamann cover themselves in glory in Twitter spat
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Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I've lost track of whatever point Liam is attempting to prove...
The first rule of Liamclub is you do not talk about...DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
looks a bit hanbaggy but then I've seen someone take a broken jaw from what looked wiv me on eyez to be a casual backhanded slap.
digs when a man is down also, no.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Put it on twitter liam.
I understand that it's not exactly a character reference. But neither is it the savage beating described with such enthusiastic hyperbole by the press and by posters on here.
My point is, very simply, that this incident - like every incident in which JB is entangled - has been hyped and distorted beyond recognition.
I had never seen this footage before. It certainly does not match the descriptions I have read and heard.
Does anyone know anything about the background of the 'victims'?
framed
Leave it!
Are you arguing that Joey Barton, as a result of his persistent folly, is now a wise fool?
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
Really? With Barton's record? Really?
When you talk about Barton...it sounds like you're talking about yourself.
'victims' lol
Sorry. Would you prefer 'provocateurs'?
I am curious as to their background so I can contextualise their (apparent) provocative behaviour at the start of the video.
Are they...
a) Two Scallies who know exactly what they are doing and fancy their chances? In which case tough shit really and choose your opponent more wisely next time.
or
b) Two out-of-town students who do not recognise the imminent danger they are in when provoking with a gang of pissed-up Scousers ?
... after what you posted on the Chelski thread?
I am embarrassed for you tbh.Dexter - The Man From The Daily Mail
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Queensbury rules of a Saturday night outside the chipper?
footballers are supposed to act like gentlemen right? theres rules about disrepute and that*
*I know very little about the game, as you can tell
but no-ones asking for queensbury's, just the standard rules about no digs unless he tries to get up again.
Outside the Chipper on a Saturday night in Liverpool, when the ales in and the wit is out? C'mon Dotty, they were lucky the whole mob did not make footballs of them.
*That does not seek to justify the violence - just to say that it is hardly surprising.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
They were asking for it, the poor cunts. Right up in his face, claiming benefits. What do they expect.
No. Apparently they are all cunts (The Gospel according to Urban).
Maybe we should just be glad that JB vents as he does... better that than spit-roasting impressionable teenagers or disappearing into an alcoholic/drug-induced haze or succumbimg to the depths of depression as so many other footballers do.
Actually they don't get depressed... or become addicted to anything at all... they just make that all up... to cover for the FACT that they are all CUNTS (Gospel according to Urban).
YouSir
Retired from Urban
You wouldn't imagine there was anyone in the world beyond his own mum who'd waste away 7 pages trying to prove that Joey Barton isn't a cunt and even she'd probably give up after the first 5.
Anyway, greater moral judgements on his existence as a whole aside he does do cuntish things. Not to say he's a cunt at heart or that he's doomed to act a cunt for the rest of his days but behaving consistently like a cunt will get you noted as a cunt, generally speaking. That others may also have acted like cunts in their lives before ceasing to act like cunts doesn't really come into it as far as I can tell.
Anyway, greater moral judgements on his existence as a whole aside he does do cuntish things. Not to say he's a cunt at heart or that he's doomed to act a cunt for the rest of his days but behaving consistently like a cunt will get you noted as a cunt, generally speaking. That others may also have acted like cunts in their lives before ceasing to act like cunts doesn't really come into it as far as I can tell.
Hey handsome. I was looking for another post and came across this. I didn't comment at the time as I was kind of unsure of the circumstances. Having had a look as a result of this thread I would like, as an old friend, to respectfully ask you two questions.
The kid he did with the cigar had tried to set fire to his shirt - whilst he was still wearing it.
Qu. 1. How would you have reacted to this level of provocation when you were his age (at the time) if you were pissed? And you can't really wriggle here cos you and I both know the answer.
"sucker punching teenagers..."
I hadn't seen the CCTV. I have now. It is not the heinous unprovoked assault it was made out to be.
Qu. 2. Would you, with the benefit of having seen the CCTV footage, consider it worth revising your opinion and/or your choice of words on this one?
Deareg
Well-Known Member
was looking for another post and came across this. I didn't comment at the time as I was kind of unsure of the circs. Having had a look as a result of this thread I would like, as an old friend, to respectfully ask you two questions.
The kid he did with the cigar had tried to set fire to his shirt - whilst he was still wearing it.
Qu. 1. How would you have reacted when you were his age (at the time)? And you can't really wriggle here cos you and I both know the answer.
"sucker punching teenagers..."I hadn't seen the CCTV. I have now. It is not the heinous unprovoked assault it was made out to be.
Qu. 2. Would you, having seen the CCTV footage, consider it worth revising your opinion and your choice of words on this one?
I an not sure that the first question would really apply to me as I have never been the sort to turn on friends nor one for the type of childish behaviour and pranks that footballers are notorious for, I doubt very much that a youth team player would do something like that to a senior pro unless there had been some kind of build up to it beforehand, if it was a case of give and take, I like to think that even though I most likely would be annoyed I would not resort to violence, I imagine that if he were to just set my shirt on fire completely out of the blue then I would at least have given him a right hander, but as I said, I do believe that it was all part of some ongoing shenanigans and therefore bang out of order, even if it were just a flash of temper.
I haven't looked at the video image since this story broke and may possibly be wrong about a sucker punch, but if my memory serves me right it was a teenager that he hit, I have never beaten anyone so young that badly, even fascists, who in the past I have let go or just given a couple of sloppy punch's to in the hope of trying to scare them off from getting involved in future fascist activities, I have also worked on the door in a number of places and took quite a lot of verbal abuse on quite a few occasions while managing to suppress the desire to smash the fuck out of the people doing the mouthing, so again I doubt very much that I would have reacted in the way that he did, especially to one so young unless something very serious had preceded the events.
sorry, I edited as you were typing there I think.
To be clear I am not defending his reaction. Merely stating that it was hardly unusual.
I also picked the wrong person really. How about I reframe it for you?
How many mutual friends/associates have we shared who were prone to a disproportionate level of violence in response to (sometimes real/sometimes perceived) violent provocation? - and I am talking in their personal lives not in their political activity.
It may have made us wary. It may have led to us suggesting moving on to another pub or using other distractions. But it was certainly present and yet we remained friends with them - probably because they were good comrades and good people when not provoked.
I will PM you a couple of names so we do not get our wires crossed here.
To be clear I am not defending his reaction. Merely stating that it was hardly unusual.
I also picked the wrong person really. How about I reframe it for you?
How many mutual friends/associates have we shared who were prone to a disproportionate level of violence in response to (sometimes real/sometimes perceived) violent provocation? - and I am talking in their personal lives not in their political activity.
It may have made us wary. It may have led to us suggesting moving on to another pub or using other distractions. But it was certainly present and yet we remained friends with them - probably because they were good comrades and good people when not provoked.
I will PM you a couple of names so we do not get our wires crossed here.
Deareg
Well-Known Member
Not sure any of this applies to this thread though, I admit that I have ignored violence by friends in the past and even joined in fights when I knew that we were completely in the wrong, but rarely have I tried to justify it later, I have to be honest Liam, I am baffled by your defence of Barton, he has everything that any sane man could possibly want yet he continues by both word and deed to act like a complete cunt.
framed
Leave it!
Why do you, apparently, have to personalise the political at every opportunity Liam?
Even in an exchange with an old comrade you reduce political discussion down to the psychological similarities between Barton and the alleged volatile personalities of people that you both know.
Your approach appears to be to apply personal psychology rather than political analysis.
Barton was called out for some of the 'cuntish' things he's said via Twitter. What's to defend here?
If you want to get Joey Barton into therapy, I suggest that you contact him directly... he's on Twitter btw.
Even in an exchange with an old comrade you reduce political discussion down to the psychological similarities between Barton and the alleged volatile personalities of people that you both know.
Your approach appears to be to apply personal psychology rather than political analysis.
Barton was called out for some of the 'cuntish' things he's said via Twitter. What's to defend here?
If you want to get Joey Barton into therapy, I suggest that you contact him directly... he's on Twitter btw.
... said the Man From The Daily Mail
... except a satisfied mind?
I will hopefully get time to answer your question properly in the morning. Thank you for engaging respectfully.
In the meantime I will leave you with this... from another one-time complete and utter cunt... whose drug and drink fuelled rages and self-destruction were legendary... and scandalised society back in the day... who turned out OK in the end...
framed
Leave it!
So, Joey Barton, how are you going to entertain us tonight?
Eh, tonight Matthew, eh, I am going to be, eh... Johnny Cash!
And why have you chosen Johnny Cash, Joey?
Well Matthew, eh, apart from his dapper black suits and greased back hairstyle being my current mode of dress, eh, I also believe that Johnny showed the world that not all cunts are bad cunts, like, eh....
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
I'm aware of zero instances of violence from Cash.
That's from the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459197/Johnny-Cashs-son-writes-parents-love--troubles.html
That's from the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459197/Johnny-Cashs-son-writes-parents-love--troubles.html
YouSir
Retired from Urban
Did you really just compare Joey Barton to Johnny Cash? Some things just aren't right...
Other than that you put a lot of faith in JB for, from what I can tell, no real reason beyond projection. While everyone else is suggesting that he is a cunt who is in the process of being a cunt and hasn't really shown signs of changing by attempting not to be a cunt you're arguing as if they're saying change isn't possible. If you do just have a deep and abiding faith in Joey Barton then fair enough I suppose.
Other than that you put a lot of faith in JB for, from what I can tell, no real reason beyond projection. While everyone else is suggesting that he is a cunt who is in the process of being a cunt and hasn't really shown signs of changing by attempting not to be a cunt you're arguing as if they're saying change isn't possible. If you do just have a deep and abiding faith in Joey Barton then fair enough I suppose.
No.
I merely suggested that the great man himself was once dismissed by all and sundry... as a man who had had too many second chances... as a drug-addict/womaniser/scumbag and all round bad egg (which are mild by today's standards but were a huge drama in the 60's).
I could have used many examples, but some people would call whoever it was a cunt. I thought the man in black was a banker bet.
