Joey Barton and Dietmar Hamann cover themselves in glory in Twitter spat

[butchersapron]

#breedinglicence - this is real.

 

[The39thStep]

Much rather argue with him than Laurie Penny though

 

[fen_boy]

Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton
I'm I firm believer that we are in a stage of devolution rather than evolution. People are getting thicker, day by day! #lookaroundyou

 

[butchersapron]

Well done liam. Your class instinct sure picked yourself a winner.

 

[butchersapron]

Much rather argue with him than Laurie Penny though

So would i. He's still a tory duchess cunt though.

 

[weepiper]

#breedinglicence - this is real.

Clicking on that hashtag is depressing (these are random others, not Barton)

Not a massive Barton fan but his rant on the lazy bastards who claim off tax payers was spot on #breedinglicence
Loving @Joey7Barton tweets, hate to say it but he talks a lot of sense and is rather amusing! #breedinglicence
Love the fact @Joey7Barton is suggesting a #breedinglicence . Would solve a lot of problems to be fair.
@Joey7Barton you are spot on with this topic mate#breedinglicence


etc etc

 

[imposs1904]

Follow

Joseph BartonVerified‏@Joey7Barton
Some people have kids to get a better council house or more money via child benefits. How is this possible? #breedinglicence

​

Follow


Joseph BartonVerified‏@Joey7Barton

*takes pin out of hand grenade...* *lobs said grenade into twitter-sphere...**sits back to enjoy the carnage...* *smiling*


he really is a bellend.

Just looked at his twitter page.

Am I allowed to call him a prick or will I be denounced as a self-righteous middle class lefty? I actually had a bit of time for him after those comments about the England players publishing their autobiographies after the 2008 World Cup but his recent tweets . . . fuck sake.

 

[two sheds]

Your that stupid, you would now be extinct

is a pearler.

 

[DexterTCN]

He's saying he's cleverer than 97% of the UK now.

(it's in reverse order)

1. Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton
   ..footballer I'd be still more successful than 97% of youse. Still harder working than 97% of youse. Still living life not just taking part
   
   Expand
   
   • • Reply
     • Retweet
     • Favorite
2. More
3. 5h​
   Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton
   ...is that I work hard. I'm more intelligent than about 97% of the British Isles. If anything football has held me back. If I wasn't a...
   
   Expand
4. 5h​
   Joseph Barton ‏@Joey7Barton
   What's funny is this 'if you wasn't a footballer Joey line.' If your(you're) aunts had b*llocks(you know the rest) The reason I'm successful
   
   Expand

 

[DexterTCN]

It looks like he wrongly corrected 'your', too.

 

[two sheds]

It looks like he wrongly corrected 'your', too.

He must have seen my post.

 

[DexterTCN]

It's probably true he's more intelligent than 97% of large areas of land.

 

[red rose]

Dirt > Joey Barton



From "What's In My Soil": here http://www.nysipm.cornell.edu/teaching_ipm/sole/land/soil.pdf

 

[LiamO]

Another LiamO thread where he steams in and gets his arse handed to him, and then gets huffy.

What a peculiar post. Particularly as it follows a perfectly rational, polite and reasoned post.

Do you actually have anything you would like to contribute to the discussion?

 

[LiamO]

.

 

[LiamO]

I note nobody actually answered the points I made in yesterdays post. Mattie asks good questions though, so...

I'm not sure I'm following this - are you defending/excusing/whatever-you-choose-to-call-it Joey Barton...

I am neither defending him nor excusing his behaviour. I said above that what he posted about yer man's Ma was a cunt's trick (a vein he continued in yesterday). I think that's fairly definitively not defending him.

What I am doing is questioning...

a) the seriousness (and accuracy) of his 'rap sheet'. A little perspective would not go amiss.
As far as I can see it's nearly all Mickey Mouse stuff. Every pub I ever drank in had a Joe Barton. Every Sunday League football team I ever played in (or against) had one.

A contrary wee cunt - who usually could not fight sleep but could start a fight in a phone box - who was always getting himself sent off/into silly rows and was generally his own worst enemy.

IME most of them turned out OK in the long run and indeed were quite nice fellas if you asked their mates.

b) The irony of people (and lots of sheeple) so angrily and aggressively denouncing his anger and aggression... in terms that are similar to his. This self-righteousness porn is not confined to Urban obviously, but you would hope that Urban would actually be different to The Sun.

Like I said earlier.. angry little pixies stamping their angry little pixie feet on the internet... about another angry little pixie spitting his dummy on Twitter.

 

[LiamO]

to try to excuse your past behaviour

Not at all. I offered a (well documented - see the Beating The Fascists' thread) example about a group of people who were much maligned in their day, mostly by people who had never actually met any of them and who chose to believe the lies and exaggerations fed to them by people with agendas.

I am not suggesting Red Action - either individually or collectively - actually behaved like JB apparently does. But there were many on the left who believed that we did. And, in true sectarian fashion, set out to find 'evidence' of that... discounting anything which peskily contradicted their view.

or because you generally believe that, underneath the character who has hospitalised team-mates no more than one occasion, Joey Barton is merely misunderstood?

I do indeed believe he is 'misunderstood' - especially by himself (btw... excellent use of a loaded 'merely' there )


As I said above he does not seem to have any filters in place once he feels slighted/provoked. He seems to be a) completely unaware that he is not actually defending himself in a school playground b) seems unaware of how his coments/actions may be perceived by the wider world and has adopted a classic 'Millwall' (no-one likes me, I don't care - reject them all out of hand... that way they don't get to reject you) attitude.

Basically I am saying this is more complex than 'He's a cunt'.

I see parallels between him and John McEnroe for example. They both seem to believe the whole world is against them and to need to feel aggrieved/slighted to perform.

I certainly can't understand him. Can't stand him either, but not sure that makes me particularly judgmental. Just intolerant of people who repeatedly assault others.

Well put and argued.

I know - or rather have known - lots of Joey Bartons and would very much like to 'understand' them and for them to understand themselves. The ripple out effect for those who know them and meet them daily, when they finally reach the tipping point and 'grow up', can be huge.

I have never found just cunting them off to be helpful in terms of their changing their behaviour - quite the opposite in fact. It just makes them perform worse...

...as can be seen from JB's (supposedly 'witty') provocative posts on Twitter yesterday.

 

[LiamO]

Funnily enough I just looked at my FB and there was a post from an old workmate who fitted the description above perfectly - lovely bloke all week then start a fight in a phone box once the drink gets in of a weekend. Good with a trowel all week... good (a little too good sometimes) with a head butt at the weekend.

He was often called a cunt and written off by many.

That was then.

Now he - happy, settled and positive - is finishing up his Degree in Drama/Acting this summer. He makes a powerful actor now he has learned to channel his demons a bit.

 

[weepiper]

There was me thinking this thread was about Joey Barton but I see it's actually all about Liam.

 

[DexterTCN]

There was me thinking this thread was about Joey Barton but I see it's actually all about Liam.

Always.

 

[butchersapron]

Liam, you're confusing his behaviour with his opinions. It's the latter that are really getting the stick here.

 

[LiamO]

There was me thinking this thread was about Joey Barton but I see it's actually all about Liam.

Said without, apparently, even a hint of irony.

Ah just fuck off Liam.

If you can think of way to answer repeated direct questions/accusations about my motivation/opinions/sanity without resort to the first person, perhaps you would be kind enough to provide examples. Thank you.

 

[LiamO]

Liam, you're confusing his behaviour with his opinions. It's the latter that are really getting the stick here.

That's debateable too. On two counts.

1. His exchange with Didi Hamann and this thread's title and initial exchanges are definitely all about his behaviour. So was all the stuff posting up a timeline of his litany of controversies - and his brothers (which has nothing to do with him).

2. Yesterday, for the first time, I actually had a look at his Twitter page as I was confused by his recent reactionary outbursts and the sheer volume of them. I also looked at his website.

Even a cursory reading of posts shows he apparently uses his website (which contains no such reactionary rubbish) for his opinions and thoughts and his Twitter account to wind people up with provocative throwaway remarks. He says so quite openly and is congratulated on it by some posters. That brings us back to behaviour I think.

So is it about his genuine opinions? Or is it about his juvenile behaviour in deliberately posting provocative things in order to get a reaction? If it's the latter he is hardly unique in that behaviour.

None of which seeks to justify in any way some of the shite he has posted this week.

 

[Wilf]

That's debateable too. On two counts.

1. His exchange with Didi Hamann and this thread's title and initial exchanges are definitely all about his behaviour. So was all the stuff posting up a timeline of his litany of controversies - and his brothers (which has nothing to do with him).

2. Yesterday, for the first time, I actually had a look at his Twitter page as I was confused by his recent reactionary outbursts and the sheer volume of them. I also looked at his website.

Even a cursory reading of posts shows he apparently uses his website (which contains no such reactionary rubbish) for his opinions and thoughts and his Twitter account to wind people up with provocative throwaway remarks. He says so quite openly and is congratulated on it by some posters. That brings us back to behaviour I think.

So is it about his genuine opinions? Or is it about his juvenile behaviour in deliberately posting provocative things in order to get a reaction? If it's the latter he is hardly unique in that behaviour.

None of which seeks to justify in any way some of the shite he has posted this week.

Actually, you have justified it.^^^^ You haven't justified the right wing shite itself, but you've got damned close to excusing him for making the actual tweets.

 

[LiamO]

Good point but IMO I have justified nothing. I have merely suggested an explanation. One that has a little more context and nuance than just 'He's a cunt'. (Just like Tevez, Terry, Beckham et al have been dismissed as 'cunts' on other threads).

My initial reaction when I saw his (breeding etc) posts was 'What a cunt!' - same as most peoples. So I went in search of the 'WHY'. Why he suddenly started an avalanche of reactionary drivel.

I simply reported back on what I found. Any of the others who went for a nosy and came back laden with juicy quotes could, I assume, have done the same thereby rendering my visit unnecessary. Of course to do so would be to bring some context, some light and create shades of grey... whereas most posters on this thread seem content with two dimensions in black and white.

 

[Wilf]

Most people's back stories are complicated - even most people's on line identities and posting histories are complex. However, when they start making crude attacks on benefit claimants, I'm not personally that keen on searching out that complexity. When he says something fuck-offable, he'll get told to fuck off.

Look, I'm kind of with you on us (all) having a bit of a Pavlovian tabloid twitch. Joey Barton, Jordan or whoever occupy a certain position in the tiny bit of my brain that thinks about them and when they do something bartonesque or Jordanesque I'll inwardly tut or hurl a onto urban. Same time, with both his behaviour and opinions, Barton puts a lot of effort into inviting those s. I/we all might be doing an ever-so-slight inverse Daily Mail thing - but it's natural and, more than that, when it comes to crude attacks on the poor, it's justified.

 

[two sheds]

Just a couple from that list of the incidents red rose referred to above​

​

• stubbed out a lit cigar in youth player Jamie Tandy's eye, after he had caught Tandy attempting to set fire to his shirt.
• ... assaulted his team mate Ousmane Dabo ... hit several times, was left unconscious and had to go to hospital after suffering injuries to his head, including a suspected detached retina.
• CCTV showed Barton punching a man twenty times, causing him to lose consciousness, and attacking a teenager, breaking some of his teeth.
• given a straight red card after head-butting Norwich midfielderBradley Johnson,

No, I'm sorry you seem to have suggested above that this has the moral equivalence of people on urban calling him a cunt. It doesn't. He should be in prison for that shit - the correct use of prison to dangerous people away from the rest of society - and it's only because he's a rich footballer that he isn't. After all that, him now having a go at people on benefits is despicable.

 

[LiamO]

No, I'm sorry you seem to have suggested above that this has the moral equivalence of people on urban calling him a cunt.

No. I did not. Not once.

He should be in prison for that shit - the correct use of prison to dangerous people away from the rest of society - and it's only because he's a rich footballer that he isn't.​

​

​

Barton has received two prison sentences (one supended). That rather leaves your assertion looking like the nonsense it patently is.​

After all that, him now having a go at people on benefits is despicable.

Despicable is an emotionally laden term - precisely what his posts were designed to produce. I looked at his posts - and their context - and concluded that he is not 'having a go at people on benefits' so much as winding easily offended people up. Well done you.

That he seems to be unaware of how cuntish many people will find his posts is another symptom of his malaise.

​

 

[two sheds]

No. I did not. Not once.

You: "Do you see how aggressive you become when people push your buttons? That's exactly what he does. Over reacts and stamps his feet."

Me: "hacking, punching repeatedly, headbutting, and the rest. A bit different."

You: "Yes. In expression. But intent? Really. They look very similar to me. JB loses the head and butts people. Posters on here lose the head and cunt people off. I wonder if that is because actual violence is not an option given we are online rather than on a pitch or in a pub.

You're suggesting we'd be doing similar if it wasn't the web. Stamping your feet isn't the same as stamping your feet on someone else's head.

Barton has received two prison sentences (one supended). That rather leaves your assertion looking like the nonsense it patently is.

No, it sort of backs up what I said. And if he still does that sort of shit he should still be inside. Until he can control himself so that he doesn't do that sort of shit any more.

Despicable is an emotionally laden term - precisely what his posts were designed to produce. I looked at his posts - and their context - and concluded that he is not 'having a go at people on benefits' so much as winding easily offended people up. Well done you.

You concluded - well done you.

 

[LiamO]

You said he would be in prison if he wasn't a famous footballer.

I pointed out he had been in prison despite his occupation and public profile (indeed it could easily be argued that he received custodial sentences because of, rather than despite, his celebrity).

You claim this backs up your position.

Bizarre.