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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

ska invita said:
are you asking me if i am fretting about corbyns voting figures?
im not invested humberto, im just commenting on what i see.

im talking about votes in a general election...sorry if we are talking at cross purposes...my mistake if so
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No knowing what a general election will look like. Especially now Johnson's been fucked off. On that front it's all to play for, as long as leadership is resolved soon.
 
Wilf said:
Expect the plp/Eagleists/traitors will be quoting this yougov tomorrow, which shows Corbyn's approval rating falling amongst Labour members:

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...ogs4gmc/TimesResults_160630_LabourMembers.pdf

Most of the fieldwork looks to have been done in the immediate aftermath of the referendum, so it probably reflects remain voting Labour members who are pissed off and noticed Corbo wasn't exactly full throttle for the cause. Not easy to guess what his figures will be in a few days when Labour members start to react to all the shenanigans - probably better for him. At one level it's all tosh looking at such figures, but it will be significant if Corbyn's enemies are able to tell a story about him losing the support of members. If they can get to that point he probably is fucked.
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Those are only official Labour Party members polled, not affiliated members and not registered supporters. Those figures are remarkably strong. I think he is going to pulverise the opposition in any leadership election much worse than last time round.
 
Ole said:
Those are only official Labour Party members polled, not affiliated members and not registered supporters. Those figures are remarkably strong. I think he is going to pulverise the opposition in any leadership election much worse than last time round.
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Just wish they'd hurry up and give us one.
 
I do think Corbyn will have been damaged by this in the eyes of a number of swing voters and others away from his core supporters. But time might heal that. and yeah, it looks really likely he's untouchable in a leadership election.

It does need sorting out asap though...but I fear the PLP in its inability to win by the rulebook (i.e. fielding a candidate who isnt going to get humiliated in a competition) will be reduced to a longer plan of continued discrediting and mudthrowing in the hope that something finally sticks. It might well drag on and on this :facepalm:
 
Ole said:
Those are only official Labour Party members polled, not affiliated members and not registered supporters. Those figures are remarkably strong. I think he is going to pulverise the opposition in any leadership election much worse than last time round.
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Well, I agree, though I'd probably go with 'fairly strong' - the polling was done at a bad time, with the euro result which very few of those members would have vote for - and I do think sympathy for him will increase amongst the members after the shite of the last few days. There will though be a political battle over the result of this and other polls that are no doubt being maliciously planned over the next few days to maximise pressure on him.
 
Wilf said:
Well, I agree, though I'd probably go with 'fairly strong' - the polling was done at a bad time, with the euro result which very few of those members would have vote for - and I do think sympathy for him will increase amongst the members after the shite of the last few days. There will though be a political battle over the result of this and other polls that are no doubt being maliciously planned over the next few days to maximise pressure on him.
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Bolded: My point exactly, and when it comes down to it, he's still getting at least 50% of the official Labour Party membership vote against any and all comers. That's slightly more than he got last time - in these dire circumstances. With affiliated union and socialist members and £3-ers on top of that it won't even be a contest. It's remarkably strong.
 
13507279_1113613625384337_6549807635189802062_n.jpg
 
lol, just like George Eaton earlier, who was saying Cat Smith and Clive Lewis were trying to see him to resign but Diane Abbot was blocking the door and stopping them. To which Abbot tweeted a picture of her very much not being anywhere near Corbyn's door, saying it was a load of old bollocks, and presumably Smith and/or Lewis also got in touch because good old George ended up saying "Sources say Cat Smith and Clive Lewis are not intending to resign."

The wanker doesn't even seem embarrassed by the amount of shit he's come out with the past few days. He's tweeted more hearsay in the past 3 days than Urban argues about in a year.
 
Vintage Paw said:
lol, just like George Eaton earlier, who was saying Cat Smith and Clive Lewis were trying to see him to resign but Diane Abbot was blocking the door and stopping them. To which Abbot tweeted a picture of her very much not being anywhere near Corbyn's door, saying it was a load of old bollocks, and presumably Smith and/or Lewis also got in touch because good old George ended up saying "Sources say Cat Smith and Clive Lewis are not intending to resign."

The wanker doesn't even seem embarrassed by the amount of shit he's come out with the past few days. He's tweeted more hearsay in the past 3 days than Urban argues about in a year.
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at this point his detractors are going for noise to drown signal. Its been happening for a while, and the snowy chinned saviour of all that is good in the world including flasks of tea has wante SFA to do with the circus (not that one).

todays attempts to make him a jew-hater again have been particularly shrill. I swear if they force the issue and he is on the ballot, three quid. I might not hold the org in itself in much regard and view electoral politics with a juandiced eye but three quid is three quid, not a bank breaker. Worth it to see off the labour right. You'll never catch me voting for the cunts mind. I just want this shit to end.
 
DotCommunist said:
at this point his detractors are going for noise to drown signal. Its been happening for a while, and the snowy chinned saviour of all that is good in the world including flasks of tea has wante SFA to do with the circus (not that one).

todays attempts to make him a jew-hater again have been particularly shrill. I swear if they force the issue and he is on the ballot, three quid. I might not hold the org in itself in much regard and view electoral politics with a juandiced eye but three quid is three quid, not a bank breaker. Worth it to see off the labour right. You'll never catch me voting for the cunts mind. I just want this shit to end.
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G'wan, do it, think of how miserable it'll make all those MPs.
 
Things to do late at night - watch the wrestling and write pish.

Politics isn't the realm of the people. Never has been.

Put three people in a room and give them even the vaguest sniff of power and within seconds they'll have completely forgotten why the have it, who gave it to them and what it's for. They'll start to find ways to protect it, to wield it to further itself, to put bars on the windows and locks on the doors so no one can sneak in while they aren't looking and have that power away from them.

Put a few hundred people in a building and you get a very big building, with very big bars and very heavy locks with a few hundred people wielding, furthering and protecting the power they've got. And this is... normal. Not acceptable, or democratic, or productive, but normal. For the most part the rest of us are too busy living life to think about it, even though we know they're using something we gave them to serve interests that are a long, long way from our own. We assume there's a balance, we assume, albeit unthinkingly, that what we gave them is tempered by some distant awareness of us potentially taking it back - which makes those who have it at least occasionally act on our behalves. We assume that, when it comes to something that matters, we can seek redress from them. Not in the great halls of government, not near their precious and jealously guarded power, but at least through cracks in the door, mumbling requests through and hoping for the best. That's a realistic enough expectation, not one that makes the whole mess any better, but it's something, right? Some minor compensation for finding out that what we gave has had the serial number scratched off and been painted a different colour.

Sometimes it works, for some people. If you can get to that crack in the door, if you can whisper clearly enough, if you can afford the time taken to sit there waiting for attention, there can be a payoff. For most though there isn't, there's just disappointment when you realise you're just talking to yourself on the doorstep, looking a bit manic to passersby. But still, when you don't need to ask for anything, or if you accept that there's absolutely no point in doing so, the system works. They have our power, we have... well, we have our lives and good or bad that's usually enough to be focusing on.

Very rarely though, once in a lifetime, if you're lucky, that door to power opens up a little bit. No one's kicking it in and if you're on the outside and your name's not on the list then you're sure as hell not going to get a nice seat on the inside. But you can glance in and see a slither of what's going on in there, maybe even shout a message that can't be ignored. You won't get back what's yours at these times, that only happens when someone ram raids the place, but even the vague opportunity to reach towards that power - our power - is intoxicating enough and, perhaps, useful enough to be a wonder in itself.

Jeremy Corbyn has, in this over-extended metaphor, ignored the door and instead cracked open the toilet window. His politics, whether you view him as their embodiment or just a figurehead, are a throwback to a forgotten time. One where we still didn't hold the weight of power, but one where we were at least aware that it was ours and in knowing that made sure we gave those doors a good kick every now and then to remind everyone of it. What he represents is a strength and awareness of what went on out of our line of sight that a lot of people had forgotten we could have. That's not a revolutionary thing, or even a threatening thing, but it is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately the price he's currently paying for that is getting a good kicking by the people who spent so long fitting locks, barring windows and doing their level best to ignore the whispers at the crack. And that's not even to say that some of those people aren't good, in their way, or kind, or caring, or considerate or humanitarian. It is to say, however, that they're shut ins, hovering around that old power and fixated on it with a clear, myopic focus. Their better natures only ever directed through the prism of the privilege they're guarding. Which, I'm sure, is very comforting for them, although it's not much use to the rest of us.

The PLP is currently in a state of self-destructive crisis. In the aftermath of the Brexit vote, in the aftermath of Corbyn's victory, they're faced with a terrifying new reality - or an old one depending on your point of view. People of all political stripes are increasingly aware of the power they've given away to them and, what's worse, they're increasingly asking what those in established power have been doing with it all this time. Their gut reaction is to lash out. Corbyn can't be trusted because, unlike them, he seems to have at least half an eye on the outside world, he does more than just covet what he has. He sees ways to do good which go beyond jealously guarding his position.

In the day to day grind of life I don't know that Corbyn could do the good that will perhaps be demanded of him by those who've taken his side. Those defending their own interests are fierce as hell when it comes to a fight and, as the media and his own MPs have already shown, they have no scruples about what they'll do in the process. Certainly a glorious new Socialist future is unlikely, but a resurgent awareness of our relation to the power that we lend to politicians? Now that is possible.

Those in the PLP who're embarrassing and disgracing themselves with their attacks on the man are fighting their own existential battle. They've shown themselves willing to fight the people who select them, campaign for them, fund them, vote for them and generally elevate them to the point where they're allowed their little slice of the power pie. I can't understand why they're doing this when, regardless of the outcome, they'll end up paying their own price for it. If they win their little coup then the Labour Party will haemorrhage support, lose money, be disaffiliated by Unions and destroy trust in itself for a generation to come. If they lose then the membership will remember them as traitors, the electorate will know them as failures and if they're not deselected in due course then they'll certainly face an eternity of obscurity on the back benches. Which I suppose answers my question, having made the first insane mistake they're tied to their own sinking ship, presumably spurred on by that same myopic fixation on their own positions which taints and distorts any and all perceptions of the world around them.

In all honestly though, I couldn't care less about them. The fates of those in the PLP who've behaved so badly are of next to no interest to me, beyond a slightly morbid sense of enjoyment at watching them flounder. What I do care about is the potential damage their actions will have on the rest of us. If they win their war (and it has reached the point of true conflict) then an idea which means a huge amount will be lost. We will have been told, with iron certainty, that the doors are shut. Our power isn't our own, our party isn't our own, our politics isn't our own and our country isn't our own. A message which will drive a generation of people away from even bothering, or perhaps drive them to start thinking of ram raiding those doors as the only choice - a blessing perhaps, in a terrible way. And it won't just be Labour members and voters who'll pay that price, this is an assertion of control that'll echo through all the parties and all the people. Mix it in with a heady brew of Brexit, Tory failures (as always), Boris-No-Mates' collapse and near non-existent trust and respect for the media and there's absolutely no knowing what the result will be. Although I'm willing to guess it won't be the capitulation to the voices of power that the PLP might imagine it to be in their wildest fever dreams.

So... what? Well the battle goes on, day by day, laden with media hysteria and nonsense. Ignore that, if you can, focus on the one thing we can know - that's our power they're abusing and unless they learn to remember who owns it now then, before long, we'll start forgetting ourselves. Support Corbyn, rattle the door.
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Vintage Paw said:
lol, just like George Eaton earlier, who was saying Cat Smith and Clive Lewis were trying to see him to resign but Diane Abbot was blocking the door and stopping them. To which Abbot tweeted a picture of her very much not being anywhere near Corbyn's door, saying it was a load of old bollocks, and presumably Smith and/or Lewis also got in touch because good old George ended up saying "Sources say Cat Smith and Clive Lewis are not intending to resign."

The wanker doesn't even seem embarrassed by the amount of shit he's come out with the past few days. He's tweeted more hearsay in the past 3 days
than Urban argues about in a year.
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What's to be embarrassed about? This isn't journalism, it's a siege, at this point everyone is aware of that.
 
He's still there and no challengers. I wonder how long before some MPs start moving back to support him or at least neutral.
 
It isn't directly relevant to this thread, perhaps, but this still seems like the place to mention it

Labour's John McDonnell to give response to Brexit vote

Will be interesting to hear what he has to say, not just about Brexit, but also about the leadership challenge stuff.

It may be that he and Corbyn have come up with a response to the vote which can actually help re-build their support, not within the PLP or the media obviously, but with those they seek to represent.
 
gawkrodger said:
According to twitter (so fuck knows if it's true - hopefully it is) Tristam Hunt's CLP passed unanimous motions last night

1) in support of Corbyn
2) of no confidence in Hunt.

The acronym LOL has never been more apt
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Expect to see a lot of this kind of thing over the next few days, loads of CLPs are having emergency meetings this weekend.

Chakrabarti has apparently said Corbyn is being deliberately misrepresented on R4 this morning too, anyone hear it?
 
Yes I heard that. What was funny at the end of the interview, as she was saying what a kind and decent person Corbyn was, who was doing his best to improve the level of political debate and to try to see the better side even of opponents, Justin Webb was virtually bundling her out of the door in case she ruined the latest attempt to rubbish him.

:D
 
ska invita said:
I do think Corbyn will have been damaged by this in the eyes of a number of swing voters and others away from his core supporters.
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Really, though? I'm not a swing voter, but nor am I a core supporter of Corbyn. I did pay the £3 and, for the first time, vote in an internal Labour party ballot, but more because I was interested to see what would happen next. From the start, I've been sceptical about his ability to change things for a whole variety of reasons, and never more so than in light of his insipid 'Remain, I suppose' campaigning.

But although my first thought when the attacks resumed over the weekend might have been that he probably couldn't lead convincingly under such conditions, the way he's held his ground is quite heartening - it suggests decisive resolve on his part. On the other hand, the more hysterical the campaign against him becomes, the more it seems to convey a sense that he does pose a threat.

I'm not saying either of those things are necessarily true - I guess we'll find out how decisive and resolute he is if he stays, and whether he proves to be a threat, over the next few months - but it certainly seems like an impression other people besides me might have.
 
I am genuinely appalled:

Dare I suggest that there may be a class element to this? Corbyn is showing no such grace and elegance. And when Gordon Brown had to quit Downing St after losing the elections, he took his own sweet time about packing... I suspect being bullied and tortured at public school during your childhood makes you better at biting unpleasant bullets and gives you an appreciation of the importance of putting on a good show for the public at a time of crisis...

Ha, did not think of that!

Normally what happens is you get bullied and tortured as a new boy and then, 5 years later when you're a senior you do the same thing to others. So it's probably not that so much as the vestigial Victorianism in public school culture: being a bad loser invites universal contempt

And quite right too.​

(from Shitebook, if you were wondering - and this is why I really don't like when people insinuate that I went to a private fee-paying school).
 
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