Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
as a longterm observer of parliamentary politics it's absolutely the norm
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
- Thread starter hash tag
- Start date
H
Humirax
Guest
ska invita
back on the other side
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
indeed. Even if they could lever Corbyn out, which they can't, none of that lot would be within a million miles of being able to win a subsequent leadership election.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBH the fact that they are talking about leaving after they've won an election shows what utter cretins they are; if Corbyn had a majority of anything between 1 and 50 they would wield the power that Rees-Mogg wields now and could veto anything or anyone they didn't like (and certainly Brexit).
Instead it seems they'll form a new party, which would deprive Corbyn of his majority, which would almost certainly force an election (at which they've just deselected themselves from their safe seats), and Corbyn would come back with an effective majority. It would be almost impossible to imagine people being that stupid, if only they hadn't already done something of similar daftness with all their Shadow Cabinet posts in 2016.
ska invita
back on the other side
what ive heard is that theyre planning to leave and start a new party most likely before another election exactly to split the vote and spoil a possible Corbyn win. They really cant stand the prospect of a Corbyn win. They dont expect to win, but stopping Corbyn would be some kind of victory for these .....
Combustible
Well-Known Member
There is also a fair chance that the next election will come about from a government collapse due to the Brexit deal (or lack of it). In which case their splitting of the vote and blocking Corbyn could bring about a hard/no deal Brexit. Which would be kind of funny in a way (as well as being massively shit obviously).
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think even they realise that to do that wouldn't split the vote, they'd just lose to the "official" Labour candidate (assuming that the party didn't try to parachute its own in on top of the locals). Who would do the canvassing, the knocking on doors etc? The fact that they are all in safe Labour seats despite their politics shows how strong the party is in them already, never mind when they are up against ex-Labour MPs who are doing it because they fear Labour would win.
At least with winning an election they get to claim that they have a mandate personally, but that what Corbyn was offering was a betrayal of everything decent etc etc etc. That their action would probably result in another election isn't something that has dawned on them yet.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Seems unlikely tbh - they might spoil Corbyn's chances but they'd lose their own seats. Don't see any of them going for that. Unless they think they can win on their own personal vote. Which they can't.
ska invita
back on the other side
i cant imagine it either...the link above talks about how they may "either form a separate Labour Party within parliament or a new party.” Not sure what that first option would look like exactly.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
They could have done that in 2016 - since HM Leader of the Opposition is a Parliamentary post (as the person followed by the largest number of non-Government MPs in Parliament) rather than the leader of the biggest party outside Parliament (though they are almost always the same), they could have thrown Corbyn out because he didn't have the confidence of his MPs and had one of their own do it instead (assuming that they could have agreed on who that would be).
Obviously their failure in 2016 to do that has meant that they couldn't do it now, and it would be almost impossible to do it after he'd just won an election, but it is a possibility.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
If you mean equating Israel state with Nazis I have never thought that.
I do however see Israeli state founded on expulsion of Palestinians from there homes.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I live in Lambeth a borough run by New Labour. Ive dealt with them for years as tenants rep and community issues. I don't think people understand.
They see Corbyn as an aberration. The centre ground is were its at. They see this as practical progressive politics. I think they really believe they represent the ordinary person. Who will return to centre ground.
My Cllrs work in things like IPPR.
They see Corbyn as temporary throwback. Once electorate see his politics aren't dealing with modern world they will once again support centre ground politics.
Problem I see is that they don't have a candidate to replace Corbyn. Chuka was but for whatever reason does not want to stand.
Nor am I clear what politics they have which will replace Corbyn once they have got rid of him.
They see Corbyn as an aberration. The centre ground is were its at. They see this as practical progressive politics. I think they really believe they represent the ordinary person. Who will return to centre ground.
My Cllrs work in things like IPPR.
They see Corbyn as temporary throwback. Once electorate see his politics aren't dealing with modern world they will once again support centre ground politics.
Problem I see is that they don't have a candidate to replace Corbyn. Chuka was but for whatever reason does not want to stand.
Nor am I clear what politics they have which will replace Corbyn once they have got rid of him.
Last edited:
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Chuka was, but Chuka isn't a viable candidate any more.
If any of that deeply dispiriting lot want to win a leadership contest, they'd have to expel a fuckload of the membership to do it. Which would be amusing as fuck, I suppose - MP's that believe social democracy works best if you don't have a mass membership
If any of that deeply dispiriting lot want to win a leadership contest, they'd have to expel a fuckload of the membership to do it. Which would be amusing as fuck, I suppose - MP's that believe social democracy works best if you don't have a mass membership
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
didn't make a dent last time lol
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
This is basically what happened in Spain with the formation of the Ciudadanos party, and it is what Bloomberg threatened to do in the US in the event of Sanders winning the Democrats' nomination.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
I think that is why in these talks we hear about the Lib Dems offering up their activists to this new 'centrist' party, but the question there for me is.. just how many of those people can there be? Surely not that many, and of those activists how many would object to being offered up to the most careerist end of the parties that they have fought against for years?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
back to 'sensible' 'moderate' 'third way' probably
As we see in Lambeth.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
back to 'sensible' 'moderate' 'third way' probably
Surface level Justin Trudeau style twitter politics of representation with George Osborne type economics whirling in the background.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Chuka was, but Chuka isn't a viable candidate any more.
If any of that deeply dispiriting lot want to win a leadership contest, they'd have to expel a fuckload of the membership to do it. Which would be amusing as fuck, I suppose - MP's that believe social democracy works best if you don't have a mass membership
It doesn't stop him mouthing off.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-antisemitism-jews-chuka-umunna-1.467255
He withdrew from the leadership contest. Imo he should shut up now. He had his opportunity.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
I think the problem for this particular lot is that they've no way of winning a leadership election even without Corbyn and the members who voted for him. This isn't a unified anti-Corbyn PLP it's the progress lot. Their candidate finished well behind Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper let alone Corbyn, I can't see that would change.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
The article has a quote specifically talking about splitting *after* Corbyn wins the election though:
"A second source told the Express: “As things stand Labour could win the next election simply because the Tories have made such a mess over Brexit and look so incompetent. “If that happens we will break away and either form a separate Labour Party within parliament or a new party.”
As you say they don't expect to win, but this seems to suggest that they think they might not need to. Although it also suggests they haven't even considered really what the reaction would be to them pulling off such a stunt.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Nothing more or less than plotting to give the tories another five years in power. The people who would struggle, suffer and die as a result just collateral damage.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
They have no politics. They just want to be the ones presiding over the privatisation, social cleansing and eternal austerity that's already in progress.
greenfield
Former lurker
This. A thousand times this. If they go ahead with their plan they will reveal themselves as the parasitical infection on the Labour party they always were. It won't prevent the damage being done however.
ska invita
back on the other side
Even if they don't it's pretty illuminating the despair they're in..i always took it to be spineless pandering to the right...I didnt realise the level of hostility they felt to modest social democracy, even when there is a clear public support for it
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This was the NF and BNP 'strategy'. Bonkers.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
they all voted for that fucking welfare bill, and I know they damn well read it. Theres no good hearts deep down, bowing to realpolitik and balancing forces etc here
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Politics is just a big circle-jerk of PPE graduates with no experience or understanding of normal human life. I suspect it's not Corbyn's politics the labour right hate him for, so much as the fact he's not from their milleu and he has some miraculous ability to communicate and engage with the vote-cattle, sorry, public.
Similar threads
