Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Pickman's model]

I’ll have a last go:

1. SF “I suspect it's not Corbyn's politics the labour right hate him for, so much as the fact he's not from their milleu”

This is not correct. He is from exactly the same ‘mileu’. By upbringing and career he’s from precisely the same social environment. He represents a different current within that shared social environment.

2. You’ve piled in accusing me of failing to understand that Corbyn isn’t a PPE from Cambridge. I agree that he isn’t. That’s why I said he wasn’t before you accused me of having a massive problem for not understanding he was.

3. I’m not interested in Corbyn’s career choices and so on. It’s uttetly irrelevant to the question of if he’s hated because he’s from a different social environment to the rest of the PLP.

The rest of your reply is you justifying the rest of your original rant on this by asking further questions about unrelated matters and agreeing with your own earlier points.

at least i agree with the points i have previously made. you manage to differ with yours. you're all over the place.

 

[bimble]

I also wonder about him saying that it antisemitic to imagine Jewish people could be loyal to Israel over the countries they live in. I have certainly experienced that sentimentality/loyality/blinkeredness, certainly not limited to Jewish people though. The idea of 'homeland' and such feelings are not uncommon with people/communities throughout the world who are living the migrant/immigrant experience, even among 2nd and 3rd generations.

i'm not going to watch that right now but .. you think all Jews in uk are living "a migrant / immigrant experience ?" Sod off.
We were allowed back in the mid 1600s.

 

[Pickman's model]

That looks nice Pickman's model (the holiday snap)

i dont see any McDonalds though?

no mcd's. only one pizza place.

 

[Treacle Toes]

i'm not going to watch that right now but .. you think all Jews in uk are living "a migrant / immigrant experience ?" Sod off.

Where did I write that? Where did I write ALL anyone?

You don't get a monopoly or to put words into my mouth. Got it?

It's like you think every post on this thread belongs to you. Sod off yourself.

 

[bimble]

Where did I write that? Where did I write ALL anyone?

You don't get a monopoly or to put words into my mouth. Got it?

It's like you think every post on this thread belongs to you. Sod off yourself.

ok. So its only SOME british jews you think are more loyal to Israel than the country they're living in. What does this loyalty look like, how does it manifest itself?

I don't "think i own this thread' that's totally in your head. You can't object to me replying to your post surely, am i supposed to just stay silent ?

 

[Treacle Toes]

ok. So its only SOME british jews you think are more loyal to Israel than the country they're living in. What does this loyalty look like, how does it manifest itself?

Read what I fucking wrote. 'Throughout the world' ,'Not limited to Jewish people/communities' do those things mean anything to you?

Also watch vid before you loose your fucking shit. The historian raises interesting points that I had not considered, two of which I have commented on above.

Also, you've got a flaming nerve accusing me of having an aggressive tone, nearly all your posts seem to be written in cat scratching nails and dripping with sneery dismissiveness.

 

[bimble]

Rutita1 I'm going to ignore the stuff about who has an agressive tone of voice because its too funny.

Are there any other people living in the uk apart from some jews who you think might be 'more loyal' to their "homeland" than the county in which they actually have lived all their lives ?

If so how does that manifest?

 

[Shechemite]

I’m not saying all the Bolsheviks were Jews

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm going to ignore the stuff about who has an agressive tone of voice because its too funny.

Are there any other people living in the uk who you think might be 'more loyal' to their "homeland" than the county in which they actually have lived all their lives ? If so how does that manifest?

i have never felt any loyalty to the county of london

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not saying all the Bolsheviks were Jews

good.

 

[Shechemite]

i have never felt any loyalty to the county of london

I’ve always felt a curious fondness for Sutton

 

[Shechemite]

good.

Glad you approve

 

[bimble]

I've always been really confused about whether or not London is a county. Or is it middlesex.

 

[Shechemite]

I've always been really confused about whether or not London is a county. Or is it middlesex.

Depends when you were born

 

[Pickman's model]

I've always been really confused about whether or not London is a county. Or is it middlesex.

london was a county from 1889 to 1965, when it (and middlesex, which was an ancient county) ceased to exist as administrative units and were incorporated into greater london; the glc took on the administrative roles of the london county council and its middlesex equivalent.

 

[bimble]

Depends when you were born

a long long time ago. Does that make it more likely i'm from Middlesex?

 

[bimble]

london was a county from 1889 to 1965, when it (and middlesex, which was an ancient county) ceased to exist as administrative units and were incorporated into greater london; the glc took on the administrative roles of the london county council and its middlesex equivalent.

So.. what county am i in right now? Is greater london a county?

 

[Pickman's model]

So.. what county am i in right now? Or is it none?

i don't know, where are you?

 

[bimble]

i don't know, where are you?

se5, between brixton & camberwell.. definitely london.

 

[Pickman's model]

se5, between brixton & camberwell.. definitely london.

formerly surrey

 

[bimble]

formerly surrey

and now?

eta this whilst a pressing issue is not for here, sorry. I hope Rutita1 will reply to the above question.

 

[Pickman's model]

and now?

part of greater london, which for all intents and purposes is the successor body to the county of london, the county of middlesex and parts of essex, surrey etc.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I hope Rutita1 will reply to the above question.

What the question that I already answered in the post you took offense to? If you hadn't spontaneously combusted and actually read the post properly you'd know that.

So no I won't be wasting my evening on you and your idiocy and stop tagging me like you've got anything interesting to say.

 

[bimble]

What the question that I already answered in the post you took offense to?

No I won't be wasting my evening on you and your idiocy and stop tagging me like you've got anything interesting to say.

No, this one:


Are there any other people living in the uk apart from some jews who you think might be 'more loyal' to their "homeland" than the county in which they actually have lived all their lives ?

If so how does that manifest?

Just one example will do.

I'm only asking because a few minutes ago you decided to write : "
"I also wonder about him saying that it antisemitic to imagine Jewish people could be loyal to Israel over the countries they live in."

 

[bimble]

Interesting that the historian here believes that Antisemitism is in the DNA of the Labour party and movements that predate the party; because of their creation to challenge the 'capitalist class' and how the history of Jewish people (through business/industry) in this country is unavoidably linked to that because of the championing workers'rights/critiquing capitalism.

Starts at about 6:45 minutes.

Hi. I've watched that bit it now.
Did you post it because you want to talk about it?
Or just cos you think its true that jews are to blame for the capitalist industrialisation of Britain.Which that man says they were blamed for.
You might want to read some history?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Hi. I've watched that bit it now.
Did you post it because you want to talk about it?
Or just cos you think its true that jews are to blame for the capitalist industrialisation of Britain.Which that man says they were blamed for.
You might want to read some history?

Good grief. You clearly are a nasty piece of work. What a cuntish thing to accuse me of given I haven't written anything on this thread that would suggest I do think that.

If your head weren't so firmly up your own pompous, sneery arse you may have noticed that I also said I found what he said interesting because I hadn't come across his points about the pre-labour movements before and his ideas about it being in the DNA of the labour party.

One thing is for certain..whilst I did post that because I wanted to talk about it i'll not discuss anything with you. You are pathetic. You might want fuck off now. Seriously, never try that shit with me again.

I used to feel sorry for the way others would come at you, I think I get it now.

 

[bimble]

righto.

 

[Gramsci]

For my two-penneth. It appears to be the core of the Anti-Semetism issue. It's quite right to be abhorrent about the policies of the Israeli Govenment and State organisations in what is clearly an effort at purging Israel (and given recent measures passed in the Knesset recently, even Israeli Arabs! The problem comes with the rhetoric involved. When talking about 'Trump-loving Jews' and similar statements, that crosses a line. One problem that isn't reported enough though is that some of the individuals receiving the abuse are verging on apologists for the Israeli states actions. Neither positions are helpful. Labour appears to be in a public relations crisis at the moment (launched by certain papers, to be sure), but they seem unwilling or ineffectual to address it and it will be damaging to them.

I don't see it as being about neither positions being helpful.

Its that people have opposing views on Israel.

An anecdote. I used to regularly chat to old Black Cab driver in London. Very old, Jewish working class East Ender. Nice guy. In his youth he had gone to Israel to work on Kibbutz. He didn't want to emigrate there but for him Israel was important. He was Labour voter. There always has been section of Labour party voters that was pro Israel. It was about pioneers coming to an empty land and building a socialist Israel. He genuinely believed that. Whilst not living there himself it was symbolically important for him.

The other section of Labour party see Palestinian expulsion from their homes as the issue.

I met people from middle East in London. Studying or learning English here. For them the Palestinians are their bothers expelled from homes by the Jews. That is how they see it. And they aren't full on political activists. Palestine is issue also for British people of middle Eastern descent.

This isn't just about Corbyn. Its that for first time the Labour party has leader who has track record supporting Palestinians. That is important for many people.

If politicians/ certain media think getting rid of Corbyn will get rid of the issue of Palestine they are wrong.

 

[bimble]

Rutita1 I know you don't like me but please try to calm down. I am really seriously interested in the subject that you posted about, for obvious reasons. If you don't want to discuss the subject of antisemitism why post about it?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Rutita1 I know you don't like me but please try to calm down.

0/10. Like I said, pathetic.