Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[chilango]

Labour are done.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Labour are done.

Which raises the interesting question of "what's next?"

The social pressures due to looting are only going to get worse post-election, so where do all the Momentum kids and 'traditional' Labour supporters go after Corbyn gets scragged and Chukka et al take over and/or merge with the LibDems?

 

[LDC]

Have left Labour, finally.

I'm not a Blairite, i actually support the economic and domestic policy he proposes, i just cannot in good conscience ask people to vote - or vote myself - to put Corbyn in No 10 given his overseas/defence/security policy, and what i know if his beliefs and character.

What i will do, when I'm faced with the ballot paper on 8th June, i don't know, but i know what i cannot do.

The mess Webley?

 

[treelover]

LOL

Actually, they now have policies of real substance, not smoke and mirrors like the Tories, but yes, it may be too late.

 

[chilango]

Which raises the interesting question of "what's next?"

The social pressures due to looting are only going to get worse post-election, so where do all the Momentum kids and 'traditional' Labour supporters go after Corbyn gets scragged and Chukka et al take over and/or merge with the LibDems?

The idea that opposition necessarily has to be extra-parliamentary is going to be increasingly "common sense."

 

[treelover]

No, there might be a chance of an all out Blairite assault on the poor and vulnerable.

yes, New Labour began the 'welfare reform revolution, even Ed talked about getting rid of DLA if they won, it was in the modern labour parties DNA to cut social security, adopt co-ercion, etc.

 

[treelover]

Maybe it would be if it existed. But if by 'electable' you just mean getting someone like Cooper or Benn to run things, all they are is a slightly more apologetic copy of the tories anyway. They wouldn't save those things, they'd just have the good grace to look a bit more sheepish than the Tories do while they let them fall apart.

Especially Cooper, brought in ATOS, the 'invisible wheelchair' test for WCA.

 

[treelover]

Less personal abuse please.

About time you cracked the whip on P/P

 

[Pickman's model]

yes, New Labour began the 'welfare reform revolution, even Ed talked about getting rid of DLA if they won, it was in the modern labour parties DNA to cut social security, adopt co-ercion, etc.

Will you lose the "it's in their DNA" bit, it's dull

 

[treelover]

Despite all this, you have to remember that a trad hard left socialist leader like Corbyn scoring 25%+ after near two years of hammering as being hard left anywhere else in europe would be seen as a massive thing.

I'm convince the vote would have risen as the concrete and excellent policies continue, but imo, too late now.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm convince the vote would have risen as the concrete and excellent policies continue, but imo, too late now.

There hasn't been a vote yet

 

[treelover]

Have left Labour, finally.

I'm not a Blairite, i actually support the economic and domestic policy he proposes, i just cannot in good conscience ask people to vote - or vote myself - to put Corbyn in No 10 given his overseas/defence/security policy, and what i know if his beliefs and character.

What i will do, when I'm faced with the ballot paper on 8th June, i don't know, but i know what i cannot do.

He and John McDonnell are going to be crucified on their past history in this GE, its going to be brutal, the Scum, DM will be gearing up now.

 

[RainbowTown]

Nothing against Corbyn as a man. He seems decent enough. Far better, for instance, than the opportunistic and hypocritical Tim 'the-libs-want-to-be-all-things-to-all people-etc-etc-'Farron. (Doesn't really extend to gay people though, does it Mr Farron?). But Corbyn's failure is that of being too entrenched and dogmatic his his views. He gets riled too quickly when challenged or opposed; he becomes uncomfortable and slightly belligerent; one can clearly see it in his body language - the forced, grimaced smile, the defensive mode he switches into. Instead of engaging in debate, he shrinks from it. That someone like May can routinely dominate him in Parliament speaks volumes about him. Maybe the country sees him more as a protestor rather than a politician. He always seems way out of his depth. And comfort zone.

 

[treelover]

Good summary, sadly.

 

[Pickman's model]

He and John McDonnell are going to be crucified on their past history in this GE, its going to be brutal, the Scum, DM will be gearing up now.

Yeh cos after eighteen months of vilification there's so much that remains unsaid

 

[treelover]

Oh there is, videos on FB targeted at working class areas with strong military recruitment/histories.

 

[stethoscope]

About time you cracked the whip on P/P

Yep, we're long overdue some punishment for Hertford

 

[cupid_stunt]

Yep, we're long overdue some punishment for Hertford

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but chains and whips excite me.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh there is, videos on FB targeted at working class areas with strong military recruitment/histories.

Saying what?

 

[billy_bob]

Nothing against Corbyn as a man. He seems decent enough. Far better, for instance, than the opportunistic and hypocritical Tim 'the-libs-want-to-be-all-things-to-all people-etc-etc-'Farron. (Doesn't really extend to gay people though, does it Mr Farron?). But Corbyn's failure is that of being too entrenched and dogmatic his his views. He gets riled too quickly when challenged or opposed; he becomes uncomfortable and slightly belligerent; one can clearly see it in his body language - the forced, grimaced smile, the defensive mode he switches into. Instead of engaging in debate, he shrinks from it. That someone like May can routinely dominate him in Parliament speaks volumes about him. Maybe the country sees him more as a protestor rather than a politician. He always seems way out of his depth. And comfort zone.

That's a fair summary. It feels like in pushing his candidacy forward, the labour left thought to itself: Blair and his acolytes were all spin. We need to move away from that. So who's the least image-conscious person we have? Corbyn clearly has no ego. Admirable in a human, maybe, but pretty useless in a politician, regardless of political persuasion. If he's not convinced he and no-one else should be in charge (beyond the acknowledgement that party members said he should be), how the hell's he going to convince anyone else?

 

[killer b]

I think it's pretty clear there was no such calculation, it was just corbyn's turn to take a punt. His victory was as unexpected by the left as anyone else.

 

[billy_bob]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it for effect. But he didn't push himself forward in the first instance, did he? Others identified him as a left alternative and encouraged him to stand and a head of steam built behind that, and presumably as much because he was the antithesis of the New Labour archetype in other ways and not just because he was further over on the left--right spectrum.

I'm prepared to have my knowledge of the facts corrected: that's how I'm under the impression it happened, but I'm an observer, not a participant.

 

[butchersapron]

I think it's pretty clear there was no such calculation, it was just corbyn's turn to take a punt. His victory was as unexpected by the left as anyone else.

There wasn't ever enough elections to regularise taking a punt. He/they just took a punt.

edit: and it was from a knock on. They weren't even dreaming of it.

 

[killer b]

There wasn't ever enough elections to regularise taking a punt. He/they just took a punt.

edit: and it was from a knock on. They weren't even dreaming of it.

Abbot stood against Miliband, and McDonnell made noises about challenging browns coronation iirc - they always had a go, but they never expected anything but humiliation.

Instead what happened this time was Corbyn totally humiliated all the other candidates, without even breaking a sweat.

I think the scale of his victory, and the apparent ease with which it was accomplished has been one of the millstones round his neck. Too much was expected of him by his followers and the rest of the party who lent him their votes, and the weakness and lack of organisation of his branch of the party has been laid bare by the onslaught that's come since.

 

[brogdale]

Abbot stood against Miliband, and McDonnell made noises about challenging browns coronation iirc - they always had a go, but they never expected anything but humiliation.

Instead what happened this time was Corbyn totally humiliated all the other candidates, without even breaking a sweat.

I think the scale of his victory, and the apparent ease with which it was accomplished has been one of the millstones round his neck. Too much was expected of him by his followers and the rest of the party who lent him their votes, and the weakness and lack of organisation of his branch of the party has been laid bare by the onslaught that's come since.

Exactly. Why Benn always said his loss to Healy by 1% was the best possible result for the left.

 

[killer b]

Corbyn was fucking great in those debates though eh? That's why May won't go for any leader debates before the GE - he's actually really good at them.

 

[brogdale]

Corbyn was fucking great in those debates though eh? That's why May won't go for any leader debates before the GE - he's actually really good at them.

Also fact that she's absolutely shite off script.

 

[redsquirrel]

I can totally get people not voting because they disagree with the parliamentary system and are doing other stuff. I cannot comprehend anyone who is vaguely left wing and actually going to vote not voting for the current Labour Party though.

Beacuse unless you're in one of a handful of constituencies you'll have to vote for a scumbag.

 

[butchersapron]

Abbot stood against Miliband, and McDonnell made noises about challenging browns coronation iirc - they always had a go, but they never expected anything but humiliation.

Instead what happened this time was Corbyn totally humiliated all the other candidates, without even breaking a sweat.

I think the scale of his victory, and the apparent ease with which it was accomplished has been one of the millstones round his neck. Too much was expected of him by his followers and the rest of the party who lent him their votes, and the weakness and lack of organisation of his branch of the party has been laid bare by the onslaught that's come since.

That's the entire history of the left standing since 81.

Corbyn didn't humiliate anyone but labour party members.

It showed that a) it is an empty shell that can now be taken over at will and b)the real ownership are stuck.

So, vote labour.

 

[killer b]

The humiliation of the membership came later. Wherever you stand on left politics through Labour, the routing of the blairites in that leadership election was a pleasure to watch imo. They were humiliated.