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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Wilf said:
Political systems always need swivel eyed dishonest grasping cunts. FFS, expenses don't spend themselves!
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Seems wrong calling them that at mo, when they were the only party entirely on the winning side of a high turnout plebiscite...though if they hadn't spent the last 20 years actively avoiding thinking about the consequences of achieving their raison d'etre; they would seem more credible
 
gosub said:
Seems wrong calling them that at mo, when they were the only party entirely on the winning side of a high turnout plebiscite...though if they hadn't spent the last 20 years actively avoiding thinking about the consequences of achieving their raison d'etre; they would seem more credible
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Well, yes, in a way they are on the right side of history - a venal bunch of nationalists and/or racists and populists who tapped into something real. However as a hierarchy they are a bunch of grasping cunts. I fully expect that they will screw the last very few quid of expenses out of the EU before we depart. Shameless venal nationalists, racists and polulists.
 
gosub said:
If he doesn't even come close, UKIP is over
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They are still polling over 10% pretty much constantly, they are generally polling ahead of the LibDems. It's possible that like with the BNP internal squabbles, dissatisfaction with lack of progress at Westminster and other issues mean that they collapse. But that 10-15% of voters that back them, they won't simply vanish, they will still be there and ready and waiting for a hard right party.
 
Wilf said:
It's done as a referendum and despite some random farting in the house of lords, it will be in parliament.
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My understanding is that Labour (overall) accept and respect the referendum result, as not to do so would be undemocratic, but want to get concessions on the terms of Brexit in the Lords (where the Tories do not have an overall majority).
 
redsquirrel said:
They are still polling over 10% pretty much constantly, they are generally polling ahead of the LibDems. It's possible that like with the BNP internal squabbles, dissatisfaction with lack of progress at Westminster and other issues mean that they collapse. But that 10-15% of voters that back them, they won't simply vanish, they will still be there and ready and waiting for a hard right party.
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They dont need a hard right party at the moment as the tories are making all the right noises to attract them .My guts tell me those who switched from the tories started to go back straight after the election,those who are ex labour will probably stop voting,those who came from the libdems might become zen buddhists or bank robbers.In ten years time many will have moved on to pastures new.
 
Unfortunately for Labour, Corbyn can only be deposed successfully by his own stable-mates - the McDonnells and Abbot's of this world - because without the support of people like that for a change of leader the membership will just put him straight back in the chair. However, I'd put very good money on those same people taking the view that Corbyn is the only potential who would have them in his/her inner circle.

If they got rid of Corbyn they'd consign themselves to the political wasteground - the stench of failure provides for few friends, particularly in a party trying to distance itself from that failure...

So sadly I see no prospect of a change of leader.
 
I don't think his being surrounded by the cult-like Momentum folks are doing him any favours.
 
Old Spark said:
Council by elections in Rotherham-a Lab gain from ukip and a Libdem gain from Lab
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The ward in the Libdem gain Brinsworth and Catcliffe contains some of the new build development on the Orgreave coke plant site redevelopment.
A 31.97% turnout too, compared with the other ward Dinnington with a 19.37% turnout that returned Labour.
 
kebabking said:
So sadly I see no prospect of a change of leader.
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Yes well anyone who was going to take on the Blairites in the party would have just the same problems and face equivalent (and often just invented) criticisms.

I'm not sure that the repeated suggestion that anyone in favour of Corbyn is a mindless culty type person is altogether fair. Is there anyone else in British politics who's suggesting a massive quantitative easing to pay for providing full employment, ending NHS privatization and giving it proper funding, increasing tax on the highest earners, building half a million council homes, introduce rent controls and secure tenancies, end zero-hours contracts and bring in stronger employment rights, universal public childcare and reinstate student grants and provide free education?

Not that he'd be able to deliver but I think at least he'd have a go. I'd be interested to hear what policies Corbyn critics would suggest instead, or whether they just don't think such things are important.
 
Old Spark said:
They dont need a hard right party at the moment as the tories are making all the right noises to attract them .My guts tell me those who switched from the tories started to go back straight after the election,those who are ex labour will probably stop voting,those who came from the libdems might become zen buddhists or bank robbers.In ten years time many will have moved on to pastures new.
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Yeah, the last 10 years has seen the two most electorally successful hard-right parties in UK history because there's opening there. And of course the centre right moving right in France has definitely stopped the FN.
 
two sheds said:
Yes well anyone who was going to take on the Blairites in the party would have just the same problems and face equivalent (and often just invented) criticisms.

I'm not sure that the repeated suggestion that anyone in favour of Corbyn is a mindless culty type person is altogether fair. Is there anyone else in British politics who's suggesting a massive quantitative easing to pay for providing full employment, ending NHS privatization and giving it proper funding, increasing tax on the highest earners, building half a million council homes, introduce rent controls and secure tenancies, end zero-hours contracts and bring in stronger employment rights, universal public childcare and reinstate student grants and provide free education?...
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openly? yes, pretty much all of the leftish Labour MP's, and most of the centerish Lab MP's would happily take most of that - the full employment thing has less popularity because no one has any interest in being seen to propose to pay people to do nothing, and the student fees has political sympathy, but its not in the top five of anyones list, and no one is going to choose students over housing or NHS spending, it fits fully in the nice to have catagory - but the rest of it could be written in the personal manifesto of any Lab MP from Yvette Cooper leftwards.

Corbyns problem has never been his domestic economic agenda, its him personally, his defence/overseas agenda, and his baggage. the polling supports that - when people are asked about anonymised policies they, from all over the political spectrum, give high approval ratings to the policies you've outlined above. however, as soon as you put Corbyns name next to them you may as well have suggested drowning puppies while getting your knob out in a junior school, the approval ratings for those polices nosedive.

its him, the electorate - and i take this from polling and my own doorknocking experience - don't like him. they don't trust him or like what he stands for and who his friends are in the defence/security/overseas sphere, and they don't think he could run a whelk stall, let alone a government, in the domestic sphere.
 
Britain Elects
Labour Gain from UKIP.
Unelectable... +15.5%!
Dinnington: South Yorkshire
LAB 36.1% (+15.5)
UKIP 16.3 (-3.1)
CON 12.8 (+2.8)
IND 12.5 (-3.7)
IND 9.7 (-3.7)
IND 4.4 (+4.4)
GRN 4.2 (-3.5)
LDEM 4.0 (+4.0)
 
kebabking said:
Corbyns problem has never been his domestic economic agenda, its him personally, his defence/overseas agenda, and his baggage. the polling supports that - when people are asked about anonymised policies they, from all over the political spectrum, give high approval ratings to the policies you've outlined above. however, as soon as you put Corbyns name next to them you may as well have suggested drowning puppies while getting your knob out in a junior school, the approval ratings for those polices nosedive.

its him, the electorate - and i take this from polling and my own doorknocking experience - don't like him. they don't trust him or like what he stands for and who his friends are in the defence/security/overseas sphere, and they don't think he could run a whelk stall, let alone a government, in the domestic sphere.
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The difficulty, though, is understanding how much of that is due to the campaign of vilification jointly pushed by the rightist 'left' and the media. Not that I really care for Corbyn's sake whether people really dislike him or have just been brainwashed to do so, but if anyone putting forward an agenda even modestly left of the mainstream centre could expect the same kind of treatment, then it's not as easy as 'right ideas, wrong guy'.
 
kebabking said:
Unfortunately for Labour, Corbyn can only be deposed successfully by his own stable-mates - the McDonnells and Abbot's of this world - because without the support of people like that for a change of leader the membership will just put him straight back in the chair. However, I'd put very good money on those same people taking the view that Corbyn is the only potential who would have them in his/her inner circle.

If they got rid of Corbyn they'd consign themselves to the political wasteground - the stench of failure provides for few friends, particularly in a party trying to distance itself from that failure...

So sadly I see no prospect of a change of leader.
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He has weathered the storm -the key to him stepping down before the election is a rule change lowering the threshold of mp nominations you need to stand.Currently its 15 percent or 35 ish).Corbynistas want it reduced ideally to 5 percent.I think this is on the agenda to be debated at this years conference (rule changes have to be submitted a year in advance).With an anti corbynista majority on the nec it wont have their support.This doesnt mean conference will oppose it -that depends who gets selected to go to conference from clps and how the unions vote (a coyne lead unite might vote differently to a mccluskey lead unite ).

If the so called " mccdonnell " rule change gets passed my view is he could step down to allow a better media performer from the corbynistas to step forward .But if not he will plough on and hope the composition of the plp helps a left challenger after 2020.
 
treelover said:
Britain Elects
Labour Gain from UKIP.
Unelectable... +15.5%!
Dinnington: South Yorkshire
LAB 36.1% (+15.5)
UKIP 16.3 (-3.1)
CON 12.8 (+2.8)
IND 12.5 (-3.7)
IND 9.7 (-3.7)
IND 4.4 (+4.4)
GRN 4.2 (-3.5)
LDEM 4.0 (+4.0)
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Turn out drop 10% from last year and the winner polled 23% fewer votes that last year. The swing seems to have come from the UKIP vote taking a huge shit.
 
Corbyns problem has never been his domestic economic agenda, its him personally, his defence/overseas agenda, and his baggage.
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That is the story of the wider left, more huge Trump protests this sat, none on basic issues.

btw, the wider left is not the few people who post on here, but the sects, cranks, liberals, church types,worthies, civil society, who can and do mobilise(successfully) on 'sexy' issues and thus crowd out other issues such as the huge power price rises, where in other countries has brought down govt's.
 
Whatever some posters say, the remnants of the SWP and Counterfire, Rees, German, do have resources, influence, and mobilise on their issues, usually identity politics based, creating 'coalitions', etc.

btw, till 2003 i had never heard of German and Rees, Callinicos(gone very quiet?) Nineham, etc, i encountered their disgusting Modus Operandi during the European Social Movement era, at a high level.
 
bemused said:
I'm expecting his domestic approval polling to go up if the Worldwide protests continue.
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innit.

you'd have thought that anyone with even the slightest interest in US politics would have long understood that Americans do not take well to being lectured by European Liberals about what they must or must not do, and that when done so they swing even harder the other way - but apparently not.
 
There are numerous agendas going on with these protests, many are using it to create an Open Borders movement, then there is recruiting, etc.
 
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