Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The problem is though that this crisis is one that is not going to give him that time. He could have called for a special conference to bring about these changes, he could have stated out what his expectations will be with regards to the PLP and what means he will seek to bring about to ensure they represent their constituents honestly, or he could have just made an example of those who criticized him - take Danzcuk for example; how is it he hasn't been kicked out yet?
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
There seems to be an unwillingness to accept that not everyone in the Shadow Cabinet that has resigned is a Blairite and/or a careerist.
It’s gone beyond that.
My friend joined the Shadow Cabinet in a genuine attempt to make JC’s leadership work but has come to reluctant conclusion that it just isn’t working.
No more, no less.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
Someone said somewhere *bad brain* that lots more new members are currently being drawn in on the back of this - I can't find anything about this - anyone have a link?
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
I don't know. That's one of the biggest problems they face. Membership will crumple if Corbyn goes (I could see it staying if McDonnell were to replace him, but I don't think there are too many others who would have the principles many of the new membership want).
Obviously, the best thing the membership/Momentum could do in the eventuality Corbyn leaves is stay and stick at it. Being front and centre in selection campaigns will end up being the only real way they can have an impact. If JC goes, you can bet the PLP will try to change the leadership election rules again so the membership are hobbled and it's harder for someone to get on the ballot. If that happens, there's a real chance they'll piss off far too many people and the entire party will crumble into even more irrelevance than it has already.
Personally, and I'm sure I'm very naive about a lot of things, I reckon if you have any kind of left-wing stake in the Party as it stands, you have to back Corbyn to the hilt over this, because too much is at stake.
03gills
Professional Cockwomble
And waiting till now was the best time to pull this shit? Give me a fucking break.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
to paraphrase sansa 'Either you knew and you are my enemy or you were used and are an idiot'
From Twitter there appears to be an influx of middle-class remainers joining up.
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
I don't give much of a fuck if they are or they aren't, it's still absolutely inexcusable - and snakey to boot - and even more so when this should be the time that all eyes are on the fucking Tories tearing themselves apart.
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
If you refer back to my previous post you will see that I think the timing is awful, to say the least.
Yes, I'm certainly unwilling to accept that.
Seems to me that this is the time for all socialists in the LP to pull together and support their leader, since the Tories will be in disarray for the foreseeable future, and therefore this is a unique and unrepeatable opportunity for Labor to press home an advantage.
Perhaps like so many in today's LP, your "friend" has little desire to see a genuinely radical socialist party in power?
When are these selection campaigns going to happen? If there's an early election, there won't be a chance for another 5 years. It'll be difficult to persuade people to hold on that long IMO
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Fair enough, but assuming your friend is on the level (which seems unlikely given that they seem to have decided this at exactly the time when everyone else involved in plotting a coup did) what is their alternative plan? Do they have a Great Left Hope in mind to replace him, or are they leaving that decision to Benn and co? As we have recently discovered from the Leave campaign, it's not good quitting if all you have is "I don't like the current setup."
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
Then we agree.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
If he'd have called for a special conference they would have framed it as him trying to be the little dictator, changing the rules as soon as he was in so that he could assure himself security and leadership for the foreseeable.
Even though he doesn't want to play their nasty politics games, he still exists in the arena where those games are being played, and he has had to step carefully.
I don't think he's gone about things the right way all the time. I think he should have engaged with the press more, even though he doesn't like them. (And even though I recognise that when he does engage with them they only show what suits them and create the narrative that he never speaks to them at all.) I'm on the fence about whether he should have been more aggressive in following his plans to reshape the party. Part of me wants him to have said, "fuck you, fuck your moaning, this is what we're doing, don't like it fuck off" but I also know that in the midst of the climate around him that they conspired with the media to create, his wings were clipped a little bit as he tried to at least keep the worst of the shitstorms slightly less stormy.
They have someone ready to go. Why does anyone think they'd have all their cards out by this point?
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
I've seen a lot of people joining Momentum over the last couple of days, and yes, I think there has been an uptick in Labour membership, that I think has been decently substantial. Not all are joining to show support for JC, although many are. Some are joining in the hopes they can have a vote for whoever is on the ballot opposite him.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Why didn't they vote against the Tory welfare bill then?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Who? If its Burnham I swear to god I'll do time.
Good!
Btw, this is a "er... doctor... it's actually about my friend" thing innit? G'wan, you can tell us...
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I agree, its just that for him to do that suggests he thought they could be talked around or even just expected to behave decently. They couldn't, and there really isn't any evidence to suggest that they could ever have been. he should have just opened up on them once he got that mandate.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Bingo.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Oh I know they do, hence "leave it to Benn and co," I'm asking whether this Independent Friend of happie chappie does.
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
If you think I'm talking about myself then absolutely not. I resigned from the Party in protest at the Iraq war and it didn't have a vote in the leadership election as my union isn't affiliated.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Look at their recent record. They lost a leadership election in the manner that they did. They took on their own leader on an issue to bomb IS a little bit (and as the latest Eye points out, only when the media impact is required), and which they had absolutely no control over. They have launched this the day after a referendum in which their leader's beliefs did better than theirs did. Where is the evidence that they know what they are doing?
I dunno. I think it's probably Burnham, but I've bad form for reading these things.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
The one person who should resign is Tom Watson. If he can't support Corbyn he should go.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
There's still the question of the Tories redrawing the boundaries. Work has already been done to decide what constituencies are going and which are staying. Obviously the Tories being in total disarray might push that project back, but I can't imagine it won't still go ahead. If it does, then I fully expect my Stoke Central constituency to go and be absorbed by either Stoke North or Stoke South. That will have to mean a by-election, even if the North/South MP plans to continue on and Trissy doesn't plan on standing, because those in Central didn't vote for them.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Wot, Andy "N-n-n-n-nineteen %" Burnham?I dunno. I think it's probably Burnham, but I've bad form for reading these things.
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