Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
This is unmasking a lot of people isn't itHe's just about democratic socialist.
Fucking hell
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
A work colleague today said to me 'well, I'd rather have a right-wing Labour than the Tories'.
Why? They both fuck us over. They both have the net result of allowing austerity and cuts to be passed through parliament.
Why? They both fuck us over. They both have the net result of allowing austerity and cuts to be passed through parliament.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You're obsessed with "open borders". Have you ever left the place you were born in? I doubt it. And you have the cheek to say to me "what a crazy world you live in"? Get a fucking grip.
One more thing: I'm not an 'open borders' type since the phrase itself suggests the existence of borders in the first place. I'm more of a no borders kinda guy.
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nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Is dead. RIP.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
FWIW, i'm not in any party, not even momentum, not that it matters.
Your "friend" should resign from the party, not just the shadow cabinet. If they are truly not a careerist, they won't mind running as an independent.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Hilarious. But thanks for sharing those internalised [media] narratives with us.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
what gets me about that is the austerity becoming the new normal. For some of us. This was supposed to be tighten yer belts for a few years, we knew that was a lie, but it was always implied that this was a response to temporary crises. 'Keep the screws on for a few generations and the next lot of workers won't remember a time before the screws'.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Didn't you once repeat the media's claim that Momentum were crawling with horrible Trots? I think you did.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
For the record, I would vote for corbyn, just commentating on his ability to win a GE.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Yet, your 'assessment' doesn't differ one iota from that of the BBC, Sky or any of the other broadcast news outlets
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
Times reckons he would, at this stage, but hey let's not let the fact that there's no evidence whatsoever of a collapsing Labour vote get in the way of a good yarn.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Solely viewed as a leader, I don't think Corbyn has ticked that many boxes - he has been far too tolerant of what is portrayed to be "dissent" but which was obviously aimed at getting rid of him. If he wasn't going to act tougher earlier to deal with those responsible, then he should at least have tried to get deselection in as a stick with which to beat them with. This plot is genuine evidence of his failure to deal with what was an obvious and growing problem. I also think there are ways in which policy should have been argued far better than it has been (Trident especially), and he really needs to engage the Tories in a far more angry fashion than he has been up until this point - kinder, gentler politics only works if the other side are of the same ilk as you.
That said, the PLP are living in a fantasy world if they think there is anyone else that has a better chance of winning the next General Election - given the mood of the country, where they want to pick up votes, and what is (and looks like will be) happening economically. You also have to congratulate them for organizing this revolt, over a period of what was probably ten months, and not working out what they would do if he refused to quit (edit), or with a replacement worked out - the already high bar of their incompetence raises itself even higher.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
This is the fundamental issue.
Corbyn has been clear he wants to introduce more and more democracy from the ground up into the workings of the party, into policy forming, and that of course will trickle down (or up) to MP selection and re/de-selection in time as well.
They're terrified of that. They're a crop of middle managers who dress like middle managers and talk like middle managers and who expect everyone to fall in line behind them as middle managers.
You only have to look at Trissy's comments to Oxford or wherever it was, that the 1% need to start taking back control of the Labour Party.
Blair's (and Thatcher's, I suppose) project is complete. The current MPs (a lot of them, anyway) think their position in the PLP puts them above the rest of the membership. They want the membership to be there to deliver leaflets and knock on doors and stuff envelopes and make up the numbers at official events. They don't want engagement from them. They don't want them to be involved in shaping the party. They want them to sit there and silently take orders like the good little drones they should be.
Corbyn threatens to upset that cushy little applecart good and proper. It's not necessarily that they disagree with all of his politics, but they're scared for their lives (where lives = careers) now he looks to be wanting to reshape the Party so that the membership actually matter.
If they cared even one little bit about what they claim to care about, they'd realise that if you want to get swathes of old Labour voters re-engaged, you have to give them a reason to engage, and giving them a stake in the party does that. Sitting on your benches hectoring at them doesn't.
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
You may want to consider the definition of a careerist:
"a person whose main concern is for professional advancement, especially one willing to achieve this by any means"
My friend will not be standing in the leadership election so not much chance of career advancement.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I agree with this - but we are ten months in though, all of that should really have been brought in by now - it isn't as if they have had anything better to do.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Secret ballot tonight, show trial tomorrow.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
And on the subject of Tristram, he did the sum total of nearly fuck all to campaign for remain around here. But that's Corbyn's fault, is it?
You've got a system with a leader and then a bunch of MPs. The leader represents the party as a whole, and the MPs each filter off and represent the party in individual areas. Each MP is, following their logic, absolutely responsible for the remain/leave vote in their area. If they had good relationships with their constituents prior to the ref, and if they campaigned hard and thoughtfully and talked to the people who live there, they might have seen some difference. But it seems very few of them did. Certainly, the ones causing the stink are more interested in London and barely spend any time in their constituency (Tristram who?). They care about the big picture but aren't prepared to get in the trenches and do the hard work of dealing with the people they represent.
I hope this mandatory reselection idea comes to pass.
There's a theory that if JC is re-elected (which he will be, unless something truly amazing happens), some of the plotters will break away, maybe seek to form a new party in alliance with the Lib-Dems or similar. If that's their plan, and it could be because they're clearly wagering one hell of a lot on this coup attempt, what do they think will happen? Most of them don't have a deep and long relationship with their constituents. They won't show them any personal loyalty. They'll vote for whoever the new Labour candidate is. Labour might lose one or two seats to it if it's an MP who has been around for years and the constituents love, but they don't tend to be the ones doing all these shenanigans.
You've got a system with a leader and then a bunch of MPs. The leader represents the party as a whole, and the MPs each filter off and represent the party in individual areas. Each MP is, following their logic, absolutely responsible for the remain/leave vote in their area. If they had good relationships with their constituents prior to the ref, and if they campaigned hard and thoughtfully and talked to the people who live there, they might have seen some difference. But it seems very few of them did. Certainly, the ones causing the stink are more interested in London and barely spend any time in their constituency (Tristram who?). They care about the big picture but aren't prepared to get in the trenches and do the hard work of dealing with the people they represent.
I hope this mandatory reselection idea comes to pass.
There's a theory that if JC is re-elected (which he will be, unless something truly amazing happens), some of the plotters will break away, maybe seek to form a new party in alliance with the Lib-Dems or similar. If that's their plan, and it could be because they're clearly wagering one hell of a lot on this coup attempt, what do they think will happen? Most of them don't have a deep and long relationship with their constituents. They won't show them any personal loyalty. They'll vote for whoever the new Labour candidate is. Labour might lose one or two seats to it if it's an MP who has been around for years and the constituents love, but they don't tend to be the ones doing all these shenanigans.
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Ole
Well-Known Member
Not sure if posted yet. From 14 days ago.
Labour rebels hope to topple Jeremy Corbyn in 24-hour blitz after EU referendum
Labour rebels hope to topple Jeremy Corbyn in 24-hour blitz after EU referendum
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
if corbyn goes under the bus, how many will stay loyal to that? they've always had strong local presences. 'But the tories' has stopped working I think.
these things are decided at conference no? I am no expert on the inner workings of the LP. But iirc he wasn't elected leader within a time frame that allowed him to table stuff for the last one. I may be misremembering. belboid think it was summat you mentioned wrt conference procedure
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Why did they help the Tories attack the most vulnerable in our society?
They have a replacement worked out. They can't reveal who it is though - anyone openly connected to the coup will lose, badly, when it goes to the members.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
How though? Lots of these rules have to be passed at conference. He can't just snap his fingers and have it all transformed overnight. It was always going to be a struggle. Trying to change the whole of Labour Party policy while juggling competing forces that are trying to undermine him every time he takes a shit means things are going to take a while. He has to be given the time to change the Party. Blair had a decade - it didn't evolve into what it is today on May 3rd 1997.
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