Is Sadiq Khan's banning of unrealistic body images a front for Islamic modesty?

[Skyfallsz]

tbh we all start by self-censoring: there are lots of things i think about posting but for a variety of reasons do not.

Thats part of living in a civilized society, or it's meant to be. Religion and government both have this fundamental problem where adults treat adults as if they were their parents telling them what they can and can't say or do. That's life though, keep your chin up etc

 

[SpookyFrank]

Personally I'm against all of this kind of stuff because it is censorship and of course it starts with the 'good' kind of censorship, but it always deteriorates into the bad kind. By the by, I think that the OP is miles off with his claim that the London mayor is doing this to please Muslims.

It's not censorship because it's not anyone's actual point of view or free expression that's being banned here. What's being banned is an artificial thing created solely to sell shit, in this case by making people feel bad about themselves. If you really want to stand on the tube and accuse women of being overweight in person, you can still do that. You may get kicked in the shins quite a lot, but them's the breaks.

Advertising on the tube is not a fundamental human right. I don't have the resources to put up signs that will be seen by thousands of people every day. People on the tube should have the right to go about their day unmolested by insidious marketing slogans and images but they don't, more's the pity. Instead we have the usual bullshit liberal compromise whereby you can use unlimited resources to try and insinuate your product into the public consciousness, provided you do so in a way that meets a few standards of basic (and I mean really basic) decency.

 

[Skyfallsz]

It's not censorship because it's not anyone's actual point of view or free expression that's being banned here. What's being banned is an artificial thing created solely to sell shit, in this case by making people feel bad about themselves. If you really want to stand on the tube and accuse women of being overweight in person, you can still do that. You may get kicked in the shins quite a lot, but them's the breaks.

Advertising on the tube is not a fundamental human right. I don't have the resources to put up signs that will be seen by thousands of people every day. People on the tube should have the right to go about their day unmolested by insidious marketing slogans and images but they don't, more's the pity. Instead we have the usual bullshit liberal compromise whereby you can use unlimited resources to try and insinuate your product into the public consciousness, provided you do so in a way that meets a few standards of basic (and I mean really basic) decency.

If you live in London, one of the most capitalistic cities in the world, you don't have the right to complain about the extreme capitalism that manifests itself in public spaces. You have the right to move to the countryside and not see advertising everywhere, but you don't have the right to benefit from living in an advanced capitalist metropolis but not see capitalism dripping off the walls.
You actually have the right to deface posters and subvert their message if it's so offensive that you can be bothered to do it without getting caught, but it seems like you are asking the companies to do it for you

 

[Treacle Toes]

You actually have the right to deface posters and subvert their message if it's so offensive that you can be bothered to do it without getting caught, but it seems like you are asking the companies to do it for you

This doesn't make any sense. You don't have the right if you have to fear getting caught

...and so what if people are demanding companies are more responsible and less offensive with their advertising?

 

[SpookyFrank]

you don't have the right to benefit from living in an advanced capitalist metropolis but not see capitalism dripping off the walls.

I don't have the right not to live in an advanced capitalist society either. So your argument holds no water.

 

[Skyfallsz]

This doesn't make any sense. You don't have the right if you have to fear getting caught

...and so what if people are demanding companies are more responsible and less offensive with their advertising?

But it's not that difficult to do, I mean people do it and the metro people obviously don't take it that seriously.

I just mean that the companies will do it if you can convince them it will help their profits, these campaigns aren't changing anything, they are just helping their marketing.

 

[Skyfallsz]

I don't have the right not to live in an advanced capitalist society either. So your argument holds no water.

You totally do, you can live out in the sticks and you don't have any of that bullshit like traffic jams, advertising, 4G etc
You will still need money, but it's not as central to life as if you live in a capitalist metropolis

 

[Treacle Toes]

But it's not that difficult to do, I mean people do it and the metro people obviously don't take it that seriously.

It's not a case of whether it's difficult...you said it was a right and that was incorrect. It isn't a right.

I just mean that the companies will do it if you can convince them it will help their profits, these campaigns aren't changing anything, they are just helping their marketing.

No I should not have to convince them on the premise of making them more money. As citizens and consumers we have the right to object with their shitty, disrespectful ad campaigns and not give a flying fuck about their profits.

What is confusing about your arguments is that you seem to be positioning the onus on everyone else and not the companies themselves...like we should just suck it up.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You totally do, you can live out in the sticks and you don't have any of that bullshit like traffic jams, advertising, 4G etc
You will still need money, but it's not as central to life as if you live in a capitalist metropolis

Anything you need to survive is gonna be pretty central to your existence no matter where you go.

 

[two sheds]

You totally do, you can live out in the sticks and you don't have any of that bullshit like traffic jams, advertising, 4G etc
You will still need money, but it's not as central to life as if you live in a capitalist metropolis

Is food as central to life as if you live in a capitalist metropolis?

 

[Pickman's model]

You totally do, you can live out in the sticks and you don't have any of that bullshit like traffic jams, advertising, 4G etc
You will still need money, but it's not as central to life as if you live in a capitalist metropolis

you have never lived out in the sticks have you. The harsh lives of the forgotten rural poor | Tobias Jones all a jolly jape for you no doubt

i imagine you believe the rural poor live the life of riley like robin hood's merry men in the errol flynn movie

 

[Skyfallsz]

It's not a case of whether it's difficult...you said it was a right and that was incorrect. It isn't a right.

I just mean that the companies will do it if you can convince them it will help their profits, these campaigns aren't changing anything, they are just helping their marketing.

No I should not have to convince them on the premise of making them more money. As citizens and consumers we have the right to object with their shitty, disrespectful ad campaigns and not give a flying fuck about their profits.[/QUOTE]

Yes you have the right to, but they don't have to listen to you. They have the right to be completely money oriented and the only reason that they act responsibly is if it is in their interests.
The biggest problem with your position is that the majority of people genuinely do not care about advertising. If they put up some really shocking images then they would get in trouble, but this whole thing of stuff going into your subconscious or affecting societal norms etc, that isn't a concern for most people, they just want to get the train to work and home.

 

[pengaleng]

fucking isis.

 

[Skyfallsz]

Not everyone who lives out in the countryside is poor, I don't really have anything to add to my point that complaining London being too capitalistic is silly imo

I'm going to tap out cos I have stuff to do before the game, and I think I'm just going to stick to making jokes from now on because arguing with people takes a lot of time up since I seem to disagree with some people on quite a deep long boring conversation level!

 

[Treacle Toes]

The biggest problem with your position is that the majority of people genuinely do not care about advertising. If they put up some really shocking images then they would get in trouble, but this whole thing of stuff going into your subconscious or affecting societal norms etc, that isn't a concern for most people, they just want to get the train to work and home.

Moving the goalposts from whether or not companies should take responsibility to the fact you believe most people don't care anyway?

Most days I just want to get the train to work and then home, amongst other things...I think your generalised view of 'most people' is dismissive to say the least.

You've shifted here because you made some ridiculous claims about what we have the 'right' to do. People have used their actual rights to good effect with regard this ad campaign. You seem to be arguing that it's wrong to do that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not everyone who lives out in the countryside is poor

 

[two sheds]

so he wants everyone who doesn't like advertising to move out into the countryside. No jobs, no houses, just move. And when the houses are built to house all these people it's going to be ..... another metropolis.

 

[Skyfallsz]

Moving the goalposts from whether or not companies should take responsibility to the fact you believe most people don't care anyway?

Most days I just want to get the train to work and then home, amongst other things...I think your generalised view of 'most people' is dismissive to say the least.

You've shifted here because you made some ridiculous claims about what we have the 'right' to do. People have used their actual rights to good effect with regard this ad campaign. You seem to be arguing that it's wrong to do that.

I wasn't arguing about what people can and can't do, I was arguing about what people can and can't expect society to do. I do worry about there being an element of censorship that this sort of thing plays into because it does seem a bit of a minority interest and there is an element of 'public morality' about it which I really don't like because I don't think pictures of good looking people on adverts is particularly harmful to society, but that is a different discussion

 

[Skyfallsz]

so he wants everyone who doesn't like advertising to move out into the countryside. No jobs, no houses, just move. And when the houses are built to house all these people it's going to be ..... another metropolis.

I was saying that it's silly to complain about it, it's like complaining about London being too crowded or expensive, or the countryside being too quiet and there not being many shops

 

[two sheds]

well isn't the point that he intends to do something about it? Or should we go the whole way and have full frontals when the marketing departments fancy it?

 

[NoXion]

Is Sadiq Khan's banning of unrealistic body images a front for Islamic modesty?

 

[Treacle Toes]

I wasn't arguing about what people can and can't do, I was arguing about what people can and can't expect society to do. I do worry about there being an element of censorship that this sort of thing plays into because it does seem a bit of a minority interest and there is an element of 'public morality' about it which I really don't like because I don't think pictures of good looking people on adverts is particularly harmful to society, but that is a different discussion

Minority interest? Which minority interest are you thinking of? Also, what do you mean by 'good looking people'? Who has complained about people looking good in adverts?

 

[Treacle Toes]

I was saying that it's silly to complain about it, it's like complaining about London being too crowded or expensive, or the countryside being too quiet and there not being many shops

Put up and shut up then? Do not challenge the things you believe make us culturally poorer? Give in to the might of capitalism regardless of the detrimental effects? You also talk like most of us actually have much of a choice in where we live? Like everyone has the resources to just pick up and leave?

 

[friendofdorothy]

If you live in London, one of the most capitalistic cities in the world, you don't have the right to complain about the extreme capitalism that manifests itself in public spaces. You have the right to move to the countryside and not see advertising everywhere, but you don't have the right to benefit from living in an advanced capitalist metropolis but not see capitalism dripping off the walls.
You actually have the right to deface posters and subvert their message if it's so offensive that you can be bothered to do it without getting caught, but it seems like you are asking the companies to do it for you

Bit difficult to deface posters on the othe side of the tub tracks.

Women have fought long and hard to rid us of sexist ads. Body fascism in ads is as bad as ever.

 

[frogwoman]

What a stupid question to ask.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Put up and shut up then? Do not challenge the things you believe make us culturally poorer? Give in to the might of capitalism regardless of the detrimental effects? You also talk like most of us actually have much of a choice in where we live? Like everyone has the resources to just pick up and leave?

Despite the attempt to portray this as Khan playing up to "Islamic modesty", this is a complete affirmation that campaigning and direct action work. People kicked up a massive fuss about the posters and took action to deface them. Now there's regulation against them. That's a win as far as I'm concerned.

 

[frogwoman]

What does it even have to do with islam at all? Its not saying that there shouldnt be scantly clad models or telling people how to dress ffs, just talking about the unrealistic ideas of beauty the adverts promote, such as companies like slimming world and other dodgy outfits. I cant believe greebozz is making such ill informed posts, oh wait ...

 

[frogwoman]

If true, could this policy be described as burqas by the back door.

What the fuck are you talking about? Like how in the world could have possibly led you to that conclusion???!

 

[Skyfallsz]

Put up and shut up then? Do not challenge the things you believe make us culturally poorer? Give in to the might of capitalism regardless of the detrimental effects? You also talk like most of us actually have much of a choice in where we live? Like everyone has the resources to just pick up and leave?

I'd prefer it if people tried to come up with better alternatives to make that sort of thing redundant, rather than just being all 'thou shalt not'

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'd prefer it if people tried to come up with better alternatives to make that sort of thing redundant, rather than just being all 'thou shalt not'

But you aren't happy and that's exactly what this campaign did, successfully.