Irish equal marriage referendum

[Casually Red]

The first part of your post is too stupid to engage with. The second simply raises the question of how exactly you believe allowing lgbt people to marry will negatively effect the rest of us who "have to live under these laws"?

And you conspicuously didn't answer my question. Here it is again: Are you against equal marriage and on what grounds?

The first part of my post addressed head on your assertion that liberal laws within bourgeois states are of no interest to you, except of course the ones you choose to vocally support and abuse others for not supporting . The second part of my post addressed the fact that what constitutes our human rights and the laws which either breach or uphold them , no matter what they are , are pretty important because we have to live under them . Otherwise you could legally be taken away , tortured and killed . For example . Human rights are important .

And I'm not against equal marriage, I believe that marriage only pertains to a union between a man and a woman . That it can't be any other . That changing it renders it devoid of meaning . And I don't like , for one, a society were nothing means anything anymore under a neo liberal agenda, where everything is increasingly consumerised and atomised . I also don't like yet another American political and cultural agenda being imported and undermining my native one .
And I'm also a catholic, not a very good one, but one nonetheless , and I'm opposed to it on the grounds of my conscience and my belief that it's a sacrament, just like baptism burial, communion and the last rites . And that it's implementation will eventually result in legal challenges forcing churches to undertake these travesties against belief and conscience .

And I'm only encouraged to believe that's what will eventually happen by the abuse heaped on anyone who disagrees with this on conscience . We won't be allowed to have one . Because I'm a fascist now, as the cool kids have pronounced . Despite supposedly having me on ignore.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

That was a very long winded way to explain that you are a particularly pompous homophobic bigot.

 

[Casually Red]

Again proving my point .

 

[8den]

It's weird how all these threads end up with Casually Red getting mistaken for a homophobe.

I think we've now established he's homophobic.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

So was I the last one to know about this character?

 

[Casually Red]

I think we've now established he's homophobic.

Ergo any church refusing to conduct one of these ceremonies will be labelled discriminatory and as such face a legal challenge . Again reaffirming my belief it's right to oppose this .

 

[8den]

Ergo any church refusing to conduct one of these ceremonies will be labelled discriminatory and as such face a legal challenge . Again reaffirming my belief it's right to oppose this .

No. A church wedding is a religious ceremony, and completely separate from the civil ceremony

Churches will be allowed to do whatever they want. Who on earth would demand a church wedding and then attempt to force the church to marry them.

This is about the state applying civil right to gay couples.

 

[Coolfonz]

Maybe better to busy yourself with your Church's child death camp rather than busying yourself over the gays and your notions of what is `sacrament` or not ( ) tho.

Or that your Church hierarchy raped tens of thousands of children...

 

[8den]

Its the most important day of our lives. So its important that our union be blesses by a priest who has been threatened with legal action if he doesn't compile.

 

[J Ed]

Its the most important day of our life. So its important that our union be blesses by a priest who has been threatened with legal action if he doesn't compile.

Is this ignorance genuine or wilful? Genuine Q.

 

[Casually Red]

No. A church wedding is a religious ceremony, and completely separate from the civil ceremony

Churches will be allowed to do whatever they want. Who on earth would demand a church wedding and then attempt to force the church to marry them.

This is about the state applying civil right to gay couples.

Oh right so..the high court decided this then ? When did this happen ?

You and the gang have clearly pointed out opposing gay marriage is discriminatory, homophobic, biggotted and , not least, fascism . A church is an institution like any other . It has no special protection under the law and if it refuses to conduct a ceremony on the grounds of gender then its plainly discriminating .
Gay people who'd want to get married in a church would most likely demand it . And be annoyed if they were treated differently to a straight couple .

Why should a church not marry them if it's the same as a man and woman ? Or a mosque ? A synagogue ? Or a Hindu temple ?

 

[Idris2002]

Why would a religious heterosexual couple not get married in a registry office, if one's the same as the other?

 

[Casually Red]

Why would a religious heterosexual couple not get married in a registry office, if one's the same as the other?

What's to stop them ? Are you saying they can't ?

Eta

You also seem to be implying homosexuals and lesbians can't be religious . And wouldn't want a church / mosque/synagogue/temple wedding

 

[8den]

Becaus a church wedding is a religious ceremony completely separate to the civil ceremony. If you are married by a priest its not legally binding if you don't also have a civil ceremony.

Who on earth would use legal action to compel a church to marry them

 

[Celyn]

That clip put me in mind of this:

"Bob Marley might fun cat singing
and dancing guys".

Like a fool, I turned on subtitles, and encountered that gem. Right, I'll play it again but just listen carefully this time.

 

[killer b]

Why is there a problem with churches being legally challenged again?

 

[8den]

What's to stop them ? Are you saying they can't ?

Eta

You also seem to be implying homosexuals and lesbians can't be religious . And wouldn't want a church / mosque/synagogue/temple wedding

No I'm not. Im saying that priests cant be compelled to marry people by legal threats.

 

[mentalchik]

Are you against equal marriage ?

And I'm not against equal marriage, I believe that marriage only pertains to a union between a man and a woman . That it can't be any other . That changing it renders it devoid of meaning . And I don't like , for one, a society were nothing means anything anymore under a neo liberal agenda, where everything is increasingly consumerised and atomised . I also don't like yet another American political and cultural agenda being imported and undermining my native one .
And I'm also a catholic, not a very good one, but one nonetheless , and I'm opposed to it on the grounds of my conscience and my belief that it's a sacrament, just like baptism burial, communion and the last rites . And that it's implementation will eventually result in legal challenges forcing churches to undertake these travesties against belief and conscience .

that'll be a yes then !

No how much you dress it up in words about conscience and belief and so called 'imported american culture' you are against it............would have more respect for you if you at least had the balls to just come out and say you are against it instea of hiding behind religion etc

 

[8den]

Why is there a problem with churches being legally challenged again?

CR thinks that "teh gays" will force churches to marry them

 

[killer b]

I hope they do.

 

[Casually Red]

Becaus a church wedding is a religious ceremony completely separate to the civil ceremony. If you are married by a priest its not legally binding if you don't also have a civil ceremony.

Who on earth would use legal action to compel a church to marry them

When in the name of suffering fuck did this become the law in Ireland ? You get married in one single ceremony . A church is an approved place ..just as It is for mosques etc . It has full legal recognition from then on . You don't need to go anywhere near a civil ceremony once you've had a religious one .

Someone who wanted to get married in a church would take legal action if they were being discriminated against on the grounds of their sexuality . Just like someone legally compelled a fucking bakery to bake a cake with a political slogan on it . In Belfast of all places . That'll end well .

 

[Casually Red]

Are you against equal marriage ?




that'll be a yes then !

No how much you dress it up in words about conscience and belief and so called 'imported american culture' you are against it............would have more respect for you if you at least had the balls to just come out and say you are against it instea of hiding behind religion etc

I can't be against something I believe can't happen . No matter how much you insist I use your formula of buzz words . I don't believe a marriage is anything other than a union between a man and a woman . Just as I don't believe a funeral can be conducted on a living person . You don't want to accept that is up to you . But I'll not be using your terminology .

 

[8den]

When in the name of suffering fuck did this become the law in Ireland ? You get married in one single ceremony . A church is an approved place ..just as It is for mosques etc . It has full legal recognition from then on . You don't need to go anywhere near a civil ceremony once you've had a religious one .

Persons wishing to get married by religious or secular ceremony should approach the authorities of the religious denomination or secular body concerned for advice on how to proceed, and also make an appointment to attend their local Registrar.

 

[8den]

I can't be against something I believe can't happen . No matter how much you insist I use your formula of buzz words . I don't believe a marriage is anything other than a union between a man and a woman . Just as I don't believe a funeral can be conducted on a living person . You don't want to accept that is up to you . But I'll not be using your terminology .

A funeral isn't a legally binding ceremony.

And denying people equal rights because of their sexual orientation is a dictionary definition of discrimination.

 

[mentalchik]

I can't be against something I believe can't happen . No matter how much you insist I use your formula of buzz words . I don't believe a marriage is anything other than a union between a man and a woman . Just as I don't believe a funeral can be conducted on a living person . You don't want to accept that is up to you . But I'll not be using your terminology .

 

[mentalchik]

I can't be against something I believe can't happen . No matter how much you insist I use your formula of buzz words . I don't believe a marriage is anything other than a union between a man and a woman . Just as I don't believe a funeral can be conducted on a living person . You don't want to accept that is up to you . But I'll not be using your terminology .

What 'formula of buzz words' ?

what the fuck does that mean ?

do you ever lighten up at all or are you always this dour ?

 

[Casually Red]

A funeral isn't a legally binding ceremony.

And denying people equal rights because of their sexual orientation is a dictionary definition of discrimination.

Well to have one you need to be legally dead, by definition . Otherwise it's a murder and not a funeral .

Again we are back to the legally binding fact that this is not a right , so no rights are being denied . Homosexual couples have gone to court on that one and lost . Their rights were not infringed upon by the states refusal to marry them .

I suspect you'll dramatically change tack on the issue of what's legally binding though .

 

[Casually Red]

What 'formula of buzz words' ?

what the fuck does that mean ?

do you ever lighten up at all or are you always this dour ?

Sorry..I daren't crack a joke or anything or I'll be pounced upon . Wasn't being snippy for the sake of it . Just über cautious .

 

[8den]

Well to have one you need to be legally dead, by definition . Otherwise it's a murder and not a funeral .

I. Just. No. The above statement contains dangerous quantities of stupid.

Again we are back to the legally binding fact that this is not a right , so no rights are being denied . Homosexual couples have gone to court on that one and lost . Their rights were not infringed upon by the states refusal to marry them .

I suspect you'll dramatically change tack on the issue of what's legally binding though .

One last time. Once a couple is married the relationship is recognised by state as a marriage. This affords the couple certain legal rights vis a vie social supports, the children of one partner, and housing. Civil partnerships do not enjoy these rights. Therefore homosexual couples are denied the same rights as hetrosexual couples.

A church wedding is entirely separate from the legal definition of marriage. And no one is suggesting that churches will be compelled to facilitate wedding if this amendment is passed.

 

[shifting gears]

Casually Red I asked you on another thread about whether you would confirm or deny your homophobia - you declined to reply (it was blatantly homophobic remarks in the Chuka disgrace thread that set the alarm bells ringing) - but thanks for confirming what we feared on this thread, anyway.