Irish equal marriage referendum

[Yossarian]

The last few pages of this thread make it pretty clear that the only people voting "No" will be those who believe their religious conservatism is more important than other people having equal rights.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Good luck to Ireland today, and I hope they vote Yes.

 

[Idris2002]

 

[Idris2002]

The last few pages of this thread make it pretty clear that the only people voting "No" will be those who believe their religious conservatism is more important than other people having equal rights.

Supposing everyone thought like that, Yossarian?

 

[Idris2002]

 

[Idris2002]

 

[sleaterkinney]

You forgot fascist! Flips sake man .

Fascists have style.

Hope it's a yes vote, a big step out from under the catholic church.

 

[DotCommunist]

just wish paisely was alive so he could die of an embolism when the yes vote passes

 

[frogwoman]

Are there any actual arguments against this apart from homophobia and religious fundamentalism? How are the no side trying to get secular voters to agree with them?

 

[Chick Webb]

Casually Red, what would be the point of strengthening the rights associated with civil partnership, presumably bringing them into line with those associated with marriage and not calling it marriage?

 

[killer b]

Are there any actual arguments against this apart from homophobia and religious fundamentalism? How are the no side trying to get secular voters to agree with them?

just bigotry, and bigotry masquerading as semantics, as far as I can tell.

 

[Chick Webb]

Are there any actual arguments against this apart from homophobia and religious fundamentalism? How are the no side trying to get secular voters to agree with them?

Because "kids need a mother and father". That's why my dad is voting no, and he doesn't even believe in Catholic god. It's an odd argument since civil partners can already adopt as far as I know and of course gay people have been having kids since forever.

 

[killer b]

I think that comes under the 'bigotry' umbrella.

 

[frogwoman]

But gay people can adopt childten anyway

 

[Yossarian]

I think that comes under the 'bigotry' umbrella.

Yep, sounds like that one can be filed alongside "Legalising gay marriage will pave the way for legalising polygamy and/or marrying horses."

 

[Chick Webb]

Yep, sounds like that one can be filed alongside "Legalising gay marriage will pave the way for legalising polygamy and/or marrying horses."

In fairness to my dad he believes a lot of loopy shit but he didn't feel the need to bring that up to justify his no voting.

My sister saw a guy in Limerick (Limerick again!) campaigning for the no vote wearing an A4 page proclaiming "no sodomy" stapled to his top. So never underestimate distate for m/m bumsex in forming people's opinions in these things. They of course have no opinion on straight people or lesbians who like bumsex.

 

[crossthebreeze]

If a civil partnership doesn't include enough rights or security for homosexual couples then those rights should be strengthened and the issue of marriage left alone . Leaving heterosexual couples unaffected in their current status . And not flushing thousands of years of civilisation down the toilet ,thanks to an imported neo liberal fad from a country that hasn't met a civilisation yet that it hasn't tried to obliterate off the face of the earth .

Except equal marriage allows for equal rights better than any improved civil partnership package.

For example: in immigration, where spousal/family visas are an issue - Ireland will accept marriage certificates from any country where same-sex marriage is legal, and any country where same-sex marriage is legal will accept a marriage certificate from Ireland - having a separate civil partnership complicates this.

Plausible deniablity is also a massive issue - i don't think you could accuse anyone in a same-sex marriage of not being out and proud, but sometimes there are advantages to not immediately outing yourself every time you have to show personal ID like a passport, or declare your marital status on a form - its better that it just says "married" not "in a civil partnership". Imagine if you were a gay person who had to visit family in Uganda, or visit Russia for work? - there will be other circumstances where this keeps people safe too, and it also makes it harder for potential employers/landlords/providers of goods and services to discriminate.

Equal marriage should also take away some of the difficulties around marriage that trans* and intersex people face (although this depends on how the law is written).

The Catholic Church, and other powerful religious bodies are not going to face any legal challenges on this. But saying no to equal marriage also denies the freedom of smaller denominations and religious bodies who want to provide marriage to same-sex couples.

I mean, i'm an anarcho-communist and feminist, me and my girlfriend have no interest in getting married, and I would prefer that marriage as a whole was abolished (along with the state, church, and the entire capitalist system), but that's not going to happen soon, so in the mean time, equal marriage is at least an improvement.

 

[Fedayn]

 

[flypanam]

Just talked to my mum, she very conservative, goes to mass everyday and she's voted yes.

 

[Roadkill]

And not flushing thousands of years of civilisation down the toilet ,thanks to an imported neo liberal fad from a country that hasn't met a civilisation yet that it hasn't tried to obliterate off the face of the earth .

What on earth is neo-liberal about equal marriage, and why on earth are you trying to claim it's an American fad?

I would ask why it's going to '[flush] thousands of years of civilisation down the toilet' too, but I suspect I know the answer to that one...

 

[redsquirrel]

What on earth is neo-liberal about equal marriage, and why on earth are you trying to claim it's an American fad?

Didn't you know, those Americans love the gays, can't give them enough rights.

 

[Roadkill]

Didn't you know, those Americans love the gays, can't give them enough rights.

I know. It's almost as if being gay is a bourgeois deviation of some sort...

 

[Lord Camomile]

Was looking through #VoteNo on Twitter to see what their camp are saying, but it's mostly people saying "don't #VoteNo"

 

[Lord Camomile]

This is a spoof account, right...?

 

[gosub]

Was looking through #VoteNo on Twitter to see what their camp are saying, but it's mostly people saying "don't #VoteNo"

tells you more about the people who use twitter than anything, what does twitter do for a Kerry dairy farmer?

 

[Idris2002]

tells you more about the people who use twitter than anything, what does twitter do for a Kerry dairy farmer?

Just had a look, and the Irish Farmer's Association has over 5000 followers in Twitter, and the Farmer's Journal over 14000. Even assuming that not all of them are horny-handed sons and daughters of na talmhan, that suggest that there may be the odd Kerry farmer on that there twitter feed.

 

[gosub]

So 1 in 10 farms then. If twitter was a fair reflection of views Mr Milliband would be in Downing Street

 

[Limerick Red]

The outcome of this is almost irrelevant , the no side are on the wrong side of history! we WILL cherish all the children of the nation equally, Ireland will be united , we will get the Brits out, women and homosexuals will have rights over their own destiny, the church will be smashed , beir bua!

 

[DotCommunist]

The outcome of this is almost irrelevant , the no side are on the wrong side of history! we WILL cherish all the children of the nation equally, Ireland will be united , we will get the Brits out, women and homosexuals will have rights over their own destiny, the church will be smashed , beir bua!

will we be allowed back if we promise to behave? and get the first round in?

 

[Limerick Red]

will we be allowed back if we promise to behave? and get the first round in?

Once ye don't go roaring and shoutin like ye own the place , a buy a ticket for the GAA club lottery you'll be fine!