Irish equal marriage referendum

[Sasaferrato]

Do you say "Eire" because of your stamp collecting, Sasaferrato? My Irish cousin took me to task for using it back in the 90s.

Yes, that is what the stamps have printed on as the country. A habit carried over from another board, where the only name permissible is that which is on the stamps. The reason is that with over 12,000 members, many of whom do not have English as their first language, when you start using the 'common names' such as Holland instead of Netherlands etc, people can get confused.

Generally the Irish people I know refer to the country as 'The Republic'. Imagine that in a stamp related context.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The church "owns" an enormous amount of schools in Ireland, the vast majority. Private schools (the kind that LiamO thinks I attended, but did not) are more often protestant or non denominational.

A number of religious orders are dragging their heels on paying damages for clerical sexual abuse, and a former education Minister for the labour party was keen on nationalising these schools as payment in kind.

There's a small but growing movement of free schools, but they are massively over subscribed we're fortunate to get my son into one.

That's not a good situation.

 

[8den]

My cousin told me that it reeked of the British state deciding what the name was after their imposition of Ireland less the six counties. Different generation though, and possibly a lot more touchy. She suggested that I use ROI instead and I just took her at her word tbh.

Nope. Ireland has been Eire for centuries. After the war of Independence in 1922 we were the "Irish Free State" (or Saoirse Eireann), when we gained independence but were still part of the commonwealth as part of the peace treaty. This changed in 1937 to the Republic of Ireland.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm not sure how it is now but in primary school we had

3-5 hours of religious education (read catholic catechism) a week.

In addition stopping for prayer three times a day.

More education for the years you were doing holy communion, confession and confirmation ( a extra half day a week) on these three years.

So essentially one full school day a week dominated by catholicsm at times (excluding things like choir practice)

In Secondary education it was about 2-3 hours a week (or a half day a week) on religion. and again stopping for prayers three times a day.

Blimey! I am in favour of RE in schools, it gives a moral grounding. I wouldn't be in favour of that though.

 

[8den]

That's not a good situation.

No and as I mentioned before these schools and hospitals (again religious orders dominate hospitals) often put catholic dogma ahead of the law. For example it is legal at present to discrimate based on sexuality. There is also conflict about our incredibly rigid abortion law, with one hospital (at least) stating that they will continue to refuse grant abortions even if the mother's life is at risk, because it goes against their "catholic ethos"

 

[8den]

Blimey! I am in favour of RE in schools, it gives a moral grounding. I wouldn't be in favour of that though.

I'm happy for children to recieve religious education but I'd prefer it to be optional like the american sunday school system.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Again, bless thank god we have LiamO our man in the street, who confidential can tell you what everyone in these neighbourhoods feels.

:-D

It's an interesting debate on schools because my sister, who lives over here has rediscovered her Christianity in order to get my nephew into a good school.

 

[cesare]

Nope. Ireland has been Eire for centuries. After the war of Independence in 1922 we were the "Irish Free State" (or Saoirse Eireann), when we gained independence but were still part of the commonwealth as part of the peace treaty. This changed in 1937 to the Republic of Ireland.

Well from her point of view it shouldnt be called that until it's unified again so in the meantime it's the Republic.

 

[8den]

:-D

It's an interesting debate on schools because my sister, who lives over here has rediscovered her Christianity in order to get my nephew into a good school.

Some irish friends living in Streatham got a cheeky bapitism in dublin to get their kid into a good Catholic school

 

[8den]

Well from her point of view it shouldnt be called that until it's unified again so in the meantime it's the Republic.

It sentences like that, that remind me of the legacy of Jonathan Swift who as part of his will founded the first asylum in Ireland, and was reported to have said


"he would have endowed the building of a wall around the entire island of Ireland had only his wealth been sufficient."

 

[Idris2002]

Nope. Ireland has been Eire for centuries. After the war of Independence in 1922 we were the "Irish Free State" (or Saoirse Eireann), when we gained independence but were still part of the commonwealth as part of the peace treaty. This changed in 1937 to the Republic of Ireland.

No.

1922: Irish Free State/An Saorstát Éireann

1937: Eire.

1949: Declaration of the Republic.

 

[LiamO]

WTF? This needs more context. What type of school, and which part of the curriculum?

My guess it's from a school - rather than a State - RE exam, from some posh, south Dublin convent school.

 

[LiamO]

That question paper is absolutely horrific, if one set out to create a 'loaded' set of questions, it would be difficult to top it.

That's why I'd like to know what school it is. They wouldn't get away with this shite in Ballymun.

I seriously doubt if it is in any way broadly representative. I will ask a few cousins who are teachers - though far from sythe Cinety Doblun.

My guess it is some highly desirable, dead-hard-to-get-into posho school. C'mon 8den. Pony up or fuck off

 

[8den]

No.

1922: Irish Free State/An Saorstát Éireann

1937: Eire.

1949: Declaration of the Republic.

Sorry yes you're right

 

[8den]

That's why I'd like to know what school it is. They wouldn't get away with this shite in Ballymun.

I seriously doubt if it is in any way broadly representative. I will ask a few cousins who are teachers - though far from sythe Cinety Doblun.

My guess it is some highly desirable, dead-hard-to-get-into posho school. C'mon 8den. Pony up or fuck off

Oh fuck off you "I'm considerably more working class than ewe" wanker.

I don't know the school, the paper was featured on several news sites earlier in the week.

But hey lets assume everything that goes against your myopic worldview is some west brit prod conspiracy.

 

[LiamO]

Catholic Catechism is a mandatory subject in these schools

I seriously doubt that.

 

[cesare]

It sentences like that, that remind me of the legacy of Jonathan Swift who as part of his will founded the first asylum in Ireland, and was reported to have said


"he would have endowed the building of a wall around the entire island of Ireland had only his wealth been sufficient."

She's in her 80s, I have a feeling it would be disrespectful to repeat that to her.

 

[LiamO]

I don't know the school, the paper was featured on several news sites earlier in the week.

But you don't know the school? Bollocks. It's Ireland not fuckin Stalinist Russia - most people could not hold their piss much less a juicy piece pf gossip like this.

It could of course be a country school - but my guess is even then it would be one that is oversubscribed by eager middle-class people who would put up with this kind of bolloxology no bother - if that was the price they had to pay for their kids getting into the golden circle.

 

[8den]

I seriously doubt that.

Once again LiamO deines reality.

 

[8den]

But you don't know the school? Bollocks. It's Ireland not fuckin Stalinist Russia - most people could not hold their piss much less a juicy piece pf gossip like this.

Speak to ROSA they tweeted the paper. If I knew the school I wouldn't announce it on a bulletin board, I'd respect childrens privacy.

 

[LiamO]

Catholic Catechism is a mandatory subject in these schools (which are the majority schools in the country) despite the fact that there are no final exams in this subject.

Just to be clear. You are claiming that the teaching of 'Catholic Catechism' is mandatory in State secondary schools in the free state?

Clarify first. Then I'll make a few enquiries.

 

[LiamO]

Speak to ROSA they tweeted the paper. If I knew the school I wouldn't announce it on a bulletin board, I'd respect childrens privacy.

How would you be respecting the children's privacy by refusing to name the school? Who the fuck would know what kids go to the school. Or care?

 

[cesare]

It seems that exam paper is for an exam in Roman Catholicism presumably at an RC school, not the LC subject of Religious Education. Does that sound right?

 

[8den]

No, it is part of the curriculum in these schools (which are the bulk of schools in Ireland) parents can opt their children out of these classes, and the child will spent the hour/or half hour sitting outside the classroom studying by themselves.

Its a massive waste of time for children.

Similarly while prayer is not manditory students who opt out of will be forced to sit there through three school prayers a day.

 

[8den]

How would you be respecting the children's privacy by refusing to name the school? Who the fuck would know what kids go to the school. Or care?

I'm not refusing to name the school, I don't know the name of the school.

 

[LiamO]

It seems that exam paper is for an exam in Roman Catholicism presumably at an RC school, not the LC subject of Religious Education. Does that sound right?

Don't undermine his rant with your pesky, pertinent questions.

It sounds like a school for Nuns to me.

 

[cesare]

Don't undermine his rant with your pesky, pertinent questions.

It sounds like a school for Nuns to me.

Well here's last year's LC exam in RE: http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2014/LC220ALP000EV.pdf

So whatever the exam paper was that 8den posted it does look like an RC one taught at an RC school.

 

[LiamO]

Just to be clear. You are claiming that the teaching of 'Catholic Catechism' is mandatory in State secondary schools in the free state?

Clarify first. Then I'll make a few enquiries.

and while we are at it...

are you suggesting that the paper you posted is in any way broadly representative of state schooling?

 

[sleaterkinney]

I can't remember taking a religious exam in Ireland, but they do have a massive impact on schools. Often there is no other choice but to send your kids there.

 

[LiamO]

cesare

So the real thing - ie the State's exam paper, the one that is heavy on the philosophy and history of world religions and positively lacking in Catholic dogma - is about as far from the reactionary shite 8den posted as it is possible to be then?

I am shocked