Irish equal marriage referendum

[sleaterkinney]

Clarify first. Then I'll make a few enquiries.

I'd have thought you would have known Liamo.

 

[Idris2002]

OK, here's my experience of religious education in school.

For most of my career at the De La Salle brothers (and believe me, I hated every minute of it), the religion teacher was the lay English teacher doubling up. He'd normally just free associate about matters ethical. Once our class and him talked about Von Daniken's Ancient Astronauts rubbish (though I can't remember what conclusion, if any was reached on that one).

He also sat us down one day and made us watch a US TV movie about date rape from the victim's point of view, the message being "don't be that guy".

The final year I was there, a new generation of dedicated religion teachers had been trained, and the one we had was an obsessive "all anti-abortion, all the time" young woman. She also got her hands on some audio cassette lecture by some weird yank nutjob all about how the musical stylings of the famous Meatloaf - Bat out of hell and all that - were an insidious threat to the morals of AmeriKKKan youth. As you can imagine, we were readily able to relate to all this.

 

[cesare]

cesare

So the real thing - ie the State's exam paper, the one that is heavy on the philosophy and history of world religions and positively lacking in Catholic dogma - is about as far from the reactionary shite 8den posted as it is possible to be then?

I am shocked

The State Education version looks a long way different, aye.

 

[Santino]

It sentences like that, that remind me of the legacy of Jonathan Swift who as part of his will founded the first asylum in Ireland, and was reported to have said


"he would have endowed the building of a wall around the entire island of Ireland had only his wealth been sufficient."

"Mad Ireland hurt you into poetry.​

Now Ireland has her madness and her weather still..."

 

[LiamO]

I'd have thought you would have known Liamo.

I live in the North.

I know for a fact it is not the case in Catholic schools up here. My daughter is the go-to girl in her school whenever they are looking for someone to debate marriage equality/homophobia/euthanasia/racism/drugs etc. Her marks have never suffered because she disagrees with Church teaching. They - to their credit - mark her according to her ability to state her case.

I suspect that would not have been the case not too long ago, but it certainly is now.

My wife is a primary school teacher in catholic school. They do not teach catechism full stop. It's years since I cast my beady eye over the religious education stuff they do but I was pleasantly surprised at how inclusive/world focussed it was.

 

[8den]

OK, here's my experience of religious education in school.

For most of my career at the De La Salle brothers (and believe me, I hated every minute of it), the religion teacher was the lay English teacher doubling up. He'd normally just free associate about matters ethical. Once our class and him talked about Von Daniken's Ancient Astronauts rubbish (though I can't remember what conclusion, if any was reached on that one).

He also sat us down one day and made us watch a US TV movie about date rape from the victim's point of view, the message being "don't be that guy".

The final year I was there, a new generation of dedicated religion teachers had been trained, and the one we had was an obsessive "all anti-abortion, all the time" young woman. She also got her hands on some audio cassette lecture by some weird yank nutjob all about how the musical stylings of the famous Meatloaf - Bat out of hell and all that - were an insidious threat to the morals of AmeriKKKan youth. As you can imagine, we were readily able to relate to all this.

Religous education could be a bit random, one day you're getting both barrels from a christian brother, and the next you're getting a philosophical discussion from a substitute geography teacher.

While LiamO is frothing at his non sequitur ad hominen de jur, it's worth once again point out that under current legislation it is perfectly legal for religious schools to discriminate on the basis of sexuality. There are teachers who are inventing boyfriends and girlfriends and having to live a lie, because if the school finds out they are gay, they can be fired simply because of their sexuality.

 

[8den]

I live in the North.

I know for a fact it is not the case in Catholic schools up here. My daughter is the go-to girl in her school whenever they are looking for someone to debate marriage equality/homophobia/euthanasia. Her maks have never suffered because she disagrees with Church teaching. They - to their credit - mark her according to her ability to state her case.

I suspect that would not have been the case not too long ago, but it certainly is now.

My wife is a primary school teacher in catholic school. They do not teach catechism full stop. It's years since I cast my beady eye over the religious education stuff they do but I was pleasantly surprised at how inclusive/world focussed it was.

You mean there's a different education system in the north I'm shocked! Next you'll be telling us they have their own currency.

None the less Liam0 feels he can tell us what goes on in schools he's never attended and knows nothing about.

 

[LiamO]

OK, here's my experience of religious education in school.

For most of my career at the De La Salle brothers (and believe me, I hated every minute of it), the religion teacher was the lay English teacher doubling up. He'd normally just free associate about matters ethical. Once our class and him talked about Von Daniken's Ancient Astronauts rubbish (though I can't remember what conclusion, if any was reached on that one).

He also sat us down one day and made us watch a US TV movie about date rape from the victim's point of view, the message being "don't be that guy".

The final year I was there, a new generation of dedicated religion teachers had been trained, and the one we had was an obsessive "all anti-abortion, all the time" young woman. She also got her hands on some audio cassette lecture by some weird yank nutjob all about how the musical stylings of the famous Meatloaf - Bat out of hell and all that - were an insidious threat to the morals of AmeriKKKan youth. As you can imagine, we were readily able to relate to all this.

I would suggest your experience - even though it was many years ago in one of the most small-c conservative places in rural Ireland - would be much more broadly representative than 8den's hysterical nonsense.

I do not find it credible - at all - for anyone to suggest that kind of shite (the kind 8den claims is rampant) is widespread today.

 

[8den]

I would suggest your experience - even though it was many years ago in one of the most small-c conservative places in rural Ireland - would be much more broadly representative than 8den's hysterical nonsense.

I do not find it credible - at all - for anyone to suggest that kind of shite (the kind 8den claims is rampant) is widespread today.

Compared to CRs claim that 9 year olds are sexual active and rape is common place in primary school.

 

[LiamO]

None the less Liam0 feels he can tell us what goes on in schools he's never attended and knows nothing about.

I have more cousins who are teachers in the 26 counties (five out of one household alone) than you have cousins, posh boy. I work in Dundalk. in a workplace of 1200 people. I'll ask a few about their expereiences.

 

[8den]

Was that De La Salle Churchtown or Waterford Idris?

 

[Idris2002]

Was that De La Salle Churchtown or Waterford Idris?

Castlebar - SO MUCH TO ANSWER FOR

 

[8den]

I have more cousins who are teachers in the 26 counties (five out of one household alone) than you have cousins, posh boy. I work in Dundalk. in a workplace of 1200 people. I'll ask a few about their expereiences.

Never let it be said that you're not consistent in your holier than thou attitude.

 

[LiamO]

None the less Liam0 feels he can tell us what goes on in schools he's never attended and knows nothing about.

I knew enough to know that you were full of shit when you attempted to portray that fundie shite you posted was in any represenative though, didn't I?

Your dishonesty knows no bounds.

 

[LiamO]

My daughter (15) just came home from her very Catholic school.

I asked her how much time of their RE classes were spent studying 'Catechisms'. She replied "What are catechisms?'

I asked about ethics/philosophy in RE and she said they mostly studied them from a Christian ( Note Christian, not specifically catholic) perspective.

I showed her 8den's Test paper.

She looked at me like I had two heads and said "No teacher would dare write shit like that. They would be laughed out of it".

 

[LiamO]

Castlebar - SO MUCH TO ANSWER FOR

And yet seemingly more liberal 20 odd years ago than Dublin is today.

Unless of course 8den is deliberately misrepresenting the situation to play to the gallery and full of bullshit?

 

[8den]

Yes. Thats NI, a different education system entirely.

Y know we don't have GSCE here right?

 

[Idris2002]

And yet seemingly more liberal 20 odd years ago than Dublin is today.

Unless of course 8den is full of bullshit?

Hmmm, well. . .

Local folklore has it that in the 1950s, some local man had a row with a local priest. . . after which said local man dropped dead of a heart attack. And everyone in the town said "ah ha, the priest killed him, by the use of his magic priest powers".

Then, during the 1983 abortion referendum, a sermon in which one of the clergy was giving the standard line on how to vote was interrupted by a local doctor, who shouted at the priest that he had no right to talk about medical matters of which he was ignorant, before storming out of the church.

But the place is still fairly socially conservative-with-a-small-c. How could it not be?

 

[LiamO]

Yes. Thats NI, a different education system entirely.

What like the one they have in Castlebar?

I think you will find the catholic church is an all-island body.

 

[Pickman's model]

What like the one they have in Castlebar?

I think you will find the catholic church is an all-island body.

and even further afield too ...

 

[LiamO]

Y know we don't have GSCE here right?

nor here. Nor in Britain

 

[LiamO]

and even further afield too ...

Popery is like a huge octopus, spreading it's testicles all over the world

 

[cesare]

Popery is like a huge octopus, spreading it's testicles all over the world

Tentacles?

 

[LiamO]

Yes. the 'testicles' bit was a nod to intelligence of the type of person who make such statements

 

[cesare]

Yes. the 'testicles' bit was a nod to intelligence of the type of person who make such statements

Gotcha

 

[sleaterkinney]

I was taught catholicism as a subject in primary school and RE in secondary school, but we only ever covered one religion. Most of the time it was from lay teachers with varying degrees of piousness.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was taught catholicism as a subject in primary school and RE in secondary school, but we only ever covered one religion. Most of the time it was from lay teachers with varying degrees of piousness.

piety

 

[sleaterkinney]

piety

 

[Roadkill]

I also note casually red has not explained why he thinks gay people should not have the right to get married.

Dragging the thread back to somewhere near its starting point, definitely this. Casually Red perhaps you could set out a reasoned argument for why you oppose equal marriage, and then there'd be something to discuss. As it is, all we've got to work with is that you think gay marriages are 'mockeries' and that equal marriage is some kind of horrid neoliberal imposition and/or unwelcome American import. I'd still love you to explain the latter, especially, since to me it doesn't make sense. Between your refusal actually to say what you think on this thread and your track record of faintly (and not so faintly) homophobic remarks elsewhere it's no wonder you're getting a bit of flak.

 

[killer b]

TBF to CR, he has said what reckons he objects to. It's just that it's a laughably transparent homophobe's figleaf.