Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
I can see you're interested in the subject rather than the usual just promoting yourself.
International Mens Day
- Thread starter Kesher
- Start date
I can see you're interested in the subject rather than the usual just promoting yourself.
I am interested in the subject, but I am bored of you, different things, m8.
'promoting yourself' LOL
I find it interesting that you have an expectation that I should 'prove my worth' by regaling you stories of my own experience of rejection regardless of my feelings for your benefit before accepting any of my advice - is that what turns you on? hearing about other peoples personal failures?
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About Grayson Perry in Huffpost:
"His work is an investigation into masculinity for men, as a tool to help inform and empower them to take charge of their own lives.
For Perry, masculinity is beyond crisis. Our definition of ‘being a man’ needs to change and fast.
Suicide is the single biggest killer of men aged under 45 in the UK, according to new UK-wide statistics compiled by CALM and HuffPost UK.
The data shows that more than 4,500 men kill themselves every year in Britain, with men three times more likely than women to take their own lives.
Men are less likely to seek help than women, and if they do it is usually to their GP rather than a family member or friend.
“For many, masculinity is a fatal burden,” writes Perry. “These figures are but the tip of the iceberg of lonely, depressed men who feel unable to reach out for meaningful human contact. We need to shout from the rooftops that masculinity is whatever you want it to be.”
For Perry, men need to become more in touch with their emotions. The straightjacket of “emotional self-sufficiency” is taught from a young age and is at the heart of the problem.
“Men think that talking about emotions and relationships is women’s business,” he tells HuffPost UK. “They have low tolerance to their own feelings. What they’ve got to learn is to let them in... I’ve spoken to a lot of men about feelings and they think if they started crying they’d never stop. It’s all or nothing. There’s no throttle control.”
Men desperately need to learn to be more flexible and vulnerable to better equip themselves for navigating their lives, he says.
“Life isn’t like driving a car, you have keep your hands on the wheel. You can’t just turn the steering wheel and hope for the best, you have to turn it one way and then the other in any given moment or situation. The set of emotional skills men need to learn are there so they can behave appropriately in any context.”
Grayson Perry On Why Old-School Masculinity Is Man's Greatest Enemy | The Huffington Post
ETA Going back to the seventies, as I do, there was a time when Feminism also meant men moving towards a centre where we didn't have to be so fucking manly, while women didn't all feel the need to be so damn feminine. It got a bit lost after that with women perhaps wanting to emulate the less ambiguous traits of manliness: swearing, drinking, competing, winning, wearing jackets with padded shoulders, working themselves too much and so on. I preferred the unisex barbers and everybody in more or less the same clothes. I don't know if I could navigate these waters of men back in barbers, covered in tattoos, and women in a very different role again.
"His work is an investigation into masculinity for men, as a tool to help inform and empower them to take charge of their own lives.
For Perry, masculinity is beyond crisis. Our definition of ‘being a man’ needs to change and fast.
Suicide is the single biggest killer of men aged under 45 in the UK, according to new UK-wide statistics compiled by CALM and HuffPost UK.
The data shows that more than 4,500 men kill themselves every year in Britain, with men three times more likely than women to take their own lives.
Men are less likely to seek help than women, and if they do it is usually to their GP rather than a family member or friend.
“For many, masculinity is a fatal burden,” writes Perry. “These figures are but the tip of the iceberg of lonely, depressed men who feel unable to reach out for meaningful human contact. We need to shout from the rooftops that masculinity is whatever you want it to be.”
For Perry, men need to become more in touch with their emotions. The straightjacket of “emotional self-sufficiency” is taught from a young age and is at the heart of the problem.
“Men think that talking about emotions and relationships is women’s business,” he tells HuffPost UK. “They have low tolerance to their own feelings. What they’ve got to learn is to let them in... I’ve spoken to a lot of men about feelings and they think if they started crying they’d never stop. It’s all or nothing. There’s no throttle control.”
Men desperately need to learn to be more flexible and vulnerable to better equip themselves for navigating their lives, he says.
“Life isn’t like driving a car, you have keep your hands on the wheel. You can’t just turn the steering wheel and hope for the best, you have to turn it one way and then the other in any given moment or situation. The set of emotional skills men need to learn are there so they can behave appropriately in any context.”
Grayson Perry On Why Old-School Masculinity Is Man's Greatest Enemy | The Huffington Post
ETA Going back to the seventies, as I do, there was a time when Feminism also meant men moving towards a centre where we didn't have to be so fucking manly, while women didn't all feel the need to be so damn feminine. It got a bit lost after that with women perhaps wanting to emulate the less ambiguous traits of manliness: swearing, drinking, competing, winning, wearing jackets with padded shoulders, working themselves too much and so on. I preferred the unisex barbers and everybody in more or less the same clothes. I don't know if I could navigate these waters of men back in barbers, covered in tattoos, and women in a very different role again.
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
It's worked pretty well there.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Sarcasm in text is not always easy to discern.
That's a good one. Fuck your feelings, I've got shit I want to say!
Oh well, it is the internests.
no, it's not. I apologise for not including a disclaimer
define what you mean by 'triggering' then?
cantsin
Well-Known Member
I am interested in the subject, but I am bored of you, different things, m8.
'promoting yourself' LOL
I find it interesting that you have an expectation that I should 'prove my worth' by regaling you stories of my own experience of rejection regardless of my feelings for your benefit before accepting any of my advice - is that what turns you on? hearing about other peoples personal failures?
You turned out to be a bit of a handful with all this eh
excuse me? gonna actually say what you mean?
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Johnny Vodka you can tell me to fuck off but this is genuinely meant with kindness:
Have you considered turning the problem on its head? You clearly have feelings of lack of self confidence and you do come across as quite angry generally. Ok, so that's one thing. Can you look at ways of dealing with that first? You're clearly capable of being articulate and quite funny. If you can address the anger and lack of self confidence FIRST, you will generally find that the second problem (the bit about women) will solve itself. Tackle them in that order, though.
Not knowing you, and not knowing how you present yourself, I can't offer you any advice on confidence except to say that nearly everyone is faking it - as you already know. But a smile goes a long way.
Yes, this is patronising soundbites from the Bumper Book of Advice, but it is well meant.
Have you considered turning the problem on its head? You clearly have feelings of lack of self confidence and you do come across as quite angry generally. Ok, so that's one thing. Can you look at ways of dealing with that first? You're clearly capable of being articulate and quite funny. If you can address the anger and lack of self confidence FIRST, you will generally find that the second problem (the bit about women) will solve itself. Tackle them in that order, though.
Not knowing you, and not knowing how you present yourself, I can't offer you any advice on confidence except to say that nearly everyone is faking it - as you already know. But a smile goes a long way.
Yes, this is patronising soundbites from the Bumper Book of Advice, but it is well meant.
mauvais
on reddit or something
And if someone responds to this that is a man, and does have this experience, then what?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I think I already did. For a man whose masculinity is seriously uncomfortable for them, being told to ''man up'' (with all the expectations and stereotypes that little gem comprises) can be not only counter-productive, it can actually trigger latent self-harming behaviour and drive someone into a deep emotional crisis.
They may not even say so, or admit it - after all, men are socialised by and large to Shut Up And Deal With It (''man up'') - so there's quite possibly no outlet for the feelings hearing the phrase inspires and in the case of someone who's become isolated and lonely it may actually be the thing that finally pushes them to suicide.
It's hard to discuss this stuff honestly and authentically, because a common response is ''so, who cares? that's not a real problem'' as if there's a hierarchy of trauma and distress.
well that explains it a lot better, thanks.
I could get dick, but it'd be meaningless because they wouldnt be liking me for who I am and I'd be pretending I'm something I'm not and playing a role.
I've just assumed as you have done that johnny is coming from the angle that I'd be going on this fantasy dating site as a 'woman'
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
No, your post is okay, but if one hasn't found their mojo by the time they're 40, then I don't think it's ever going to happen. Too much shit to dig in to. I have alternative coping strategies anyway.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Man/woman/anything in between... if someone has had this experience over a long period of time (like most of their life), I'm happy to listen.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Has which experience over a long period?
foreveraloneitis
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Rejection, rejection, rejection, feeling unwanted and totally outside of what might be considered desirable to the point that you couldn't accept someone might find you attractive.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
On the other hand, I think any man who really needs a ''mens day'' probably doesn't really understand maleness too well. Or maybe that's just cultural, it's hard to say for sure.
Also, as mentioned upthread, in most parts of the world every fucking day is a men's day. Maybe this by itself is a reason to officially limit it to one day.
Also, as mentioned upthread, in most parts of the world every fucking day is a men's day. Maybe this by itself is a reason to officially limit it to one day.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
Some Dad music.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Rubbish. But still better than Simply Red.
mauvais
on reddit or something
I'm not comfortable getting into describing my life history, but it's not a million miles away from some of what you're talking about. Not so heavy on trying and being rejected, but certainly believing in a lack of prospects, not knowing how to proceed & loneliness.
But much of your response to it is alien to me - angry and pinning it on something external. Some way back I think you compared it to depression. Well, yeah, there's some significant overlap. But the world doesn't owe it to you to lift you up, and it certainly doesn't owe you a partner. That's entirely for you to figure out or move on from. Some of that might include ideas about what it really is or isn't to be a man, but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
bullshit
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