PTK
Paul Kegan
Oh, shove it
.Other, more imaginative answers are available
But to follow that logic, if I'm opposed to open borders and someone asks me what I'd like to see instead, it'd be valid to say nothing - close the borders completely.
Immigration to the UK - do you have concerns?
- Thread starter mojo pixy
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For the record I don’t give a shit if I’m competing with someone from Pakistan, India, Singapore, Nigeria, Egypt. Which I was. Because I know I’m the best and I’ll out compete them all. But the question is asked, and I don’t think it’s unfair or racist to ask it. Whether your a doctor or a plumber or a labourer.
All over the world people look after their own preferentially. Is there a moral problem with that?
All over the world people look after their own preferentially. Is there a moral problem with that?
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
Isn't it true that some years ago, when Polish builders started coming in fairly large numbers to the UK, that they were so much cheaper than UK builders that they got most of the jobs and loads of UK builders went bust or had to drop their prices to an unsustainable degree?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Quick guess…white people?
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Working class, presumably.
That's not really worthy of you, brogdale.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Really ?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I’m genuinely sorry you think that
I was commenting in the context of the few sentences that preceded the claim that “people look after their own “…
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ah ok, I've just twigged what the benefits argument is. Immigration raises the unemployment rate, increasing the number of people on benefit as immigrants take jobs from people. There's really no evidence whatever to support this. If you compare unemployment rates in the UK across, say, the last 50 years, with net migration rates across the same period, there is no correlation whatever. If anything the correlation is the other way around. As net immigration rose significantly through the late 90s and early 2000s, unemployment fell steadily.
Fundamentally, unemployment goes up as a result of failures in the financial system: mad Thatcherist monetarism in the 80s, 'Black Wednesday' in the 90s, the Credit Crunch in 2008.
Fundamentally, unemployment goes up as a result of failures in the financial system: mad Thatcherist monetarism in the 80s, 'Black Wednesday' in the 90s, the Credit Crunch in 2008.
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Not for me to say, but I did pose the question.
But then this:I’m genuinely sorry you think that
I was commenting in the context of the few sentences that preceded the claim that “people look after their own “…
All over the world people are not white so guessing 'white people' is disingenuous.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Don’t know about most of the jobs or U.K. builders going bust however I knew a fair few kitchen fitters and builders who were out priced by their Polish counterparts at that time in Manchester .
To state the bleedin' obvious, not all British people are white. And not all immigrants are non-white.
Therefore reasonable to assume "our people" means British people. Not white. Can we stop trying to insinuate long standing posters are racist and engage with what they've actually said.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
There are lots of ways to 'look out for your own'. One of them involves providing young people with opportunities to travel and work or study abroad.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Of course, but to also state the obvious, only Edie can say what she meant by “looking after our own”.
What troubles me most about that claim is that it follows hard on the heels of tropes long favoured by racists that immigrants are “flocking” over here to take our jobs and send all their income home.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
For the record I’m not trying to insinuate anything, but coming out with tired old anti-immigrant tropes deserves challenging.
But you put your own spin on it.
Well I read 'our own' as British people as it seems others did too. And as you point out, this is after all a thread about immigration to the UK.What troubles me most about that claim is that it follows hard on the heels of tropes long favoured by racists that immigrants are “flocking” over here to take our jobs and send all their income home.
Why not just own you fucked it and move on?
(Seriously this kind of thing is why I don't really post on threads like this..)
I have no quibble with you challenging stats of course. But your "Quick guess…white people?" was plainly insinuation.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It was insinuation tbf. That said, you're right that about repeating tired tropes that don't stand up to scrutiny.
Someone who is struggling may perceive the reason they are struggling to be immigration, particularly if they think they see immigrants around them doing better than they are. But the perception doesn't make it true. And it does need to be challenged. Immigrants are an all-too-easy scapegoat.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Not really, having just read “…I’m competing with someone from Pakistan, India, Singapore, Nigeria, Egypt…” and then to be told that “people look after their own”, I’d say the question posed was valid.
People born and raised in Britain.
What a dick you are.
Not necessarily. Although my heart still cares more for the working class as that’s my family and the middle class are constantly systematically advantaged anyway.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
So, if I were not born or "raised" in Britain, I can neither be "our" or "own"? So basically get to fuck, then?
Again, I wonder where are you getting these racist, far-right adjacent tropes from? You think this is acceptable?
You call me a dick, but I'm not the one who proudly stands by ill-informed clap-trap long favoured by racists and offers not one glimmer of reflection on how offensive some of these tropes may be.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
That’s not “my own”.
I’ve got far more in common with a Syrian refugee than with Jacob Rees Mogg.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Mind you, I’ve got more in common with a banana than with Jacob Rees Mogg.
In what way are you more in common Danny?
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