This thread is depressing me, because wise posters, who I know for a fact understand that society operates in dimensions beyond the obvious things you see on the surface, seem determined to approach this subject only in the most simplistic, direct possible way. “Who cares what concerns racists have?”, these posters say, as if analysis is impossible beyond “ask people what is on their mind and then take the response completely literally”. It’s like 50 years of research on social constructionism never happened.
I can only reiterate. You don’t ask somebody, “what are your concerns with immigration” and then say, “oh, okay then, we better react in the most literal and surface way possible to the exact thing you’ve described”. What you do is try to understand how the way people are making sense of their reality fits into wider theorisations of reality-formation, and use that to understand what the intervention points could therefore be.
I know none of you looked at the academic paper I linked to earlier, but it was honestly doing that exact thing. It was asking, “which white people in New Zealand object to laws that seek to make financial reparations to Māori people, which white people object to laws that aim to reinstate Maori culture and are these the same white people? And if not, why not? Through this, the authors elaborate on how society displays two quite different forms of racism and prejudice — one that focuses on the allocation of resources and one that focuses on the production of symbolic capital (eg whose culture gets to be visible and prevalent). Lo and behold, these types of prejudice are driven by very different psychosocial mechanisms.
So please stop it with the “but we’ve paid attention to racists for thirty years and look where it’s got us, so now we need to just bash them instead” oversimplified straw man. We’ve only just started to really pay attention to racism in any kind of systematic and theoretical way. Most of the models date from the last 25 years. You can ignore that work, fine, but don’t pretend that it’s about appeasement or whatever other simplistic story is in your mind.
I've touched on that whilst I support immigration living in multicultural area isn't nirvana.
I did start the academic paper. Found it hard going last weekend as it's not written for layman. Will try to give it another go.
What I did get was that Maoris are getting somewhere. That the debate now has moved on. It's not quite the same as immigration debate it's more about what happens when things are planned to deal with past wrongs. And how to organise a multicultural society.
I must say when I hear the word reparations my heart sinks.
To take it more to what I know.
These kinds of discussions especially if councils/ government get involved are a minefield. Get into discussions about who was here first etc. It's not a discussion in practice. It's people getting on their soapboxes and doing their speech.
It's not far different from how this thread has gone over last few pages.
My way of dealing with these kinds of things is to steer clear of them as best I can.
If they want a symbolic statue in a square I just keep out of it. Even if I might think it looks rubbish or have other issues with it
The issue of the reparations and the shoreline. If I was there I'd want to know if it effected me materially.
Because reading that reminds me of the following
Remember a community meeting while back where a local service was discussed. Complaints etc. One group of local Black people kept on referring to it as "our" service. Everyone knew what they meant. In end one of my local Cllrs ( one of the black Cllrs) stood up and told them council services were for everybody. I was so glad he did.
Also people pick up on bits and pieces of council type diversity talk and it gets used to bang other people over the head. If there is disagreement then it sometimes gets couched in terms of who is the most working class or oppressed.
There is some of that going on at moment in group I'm in and I'm just not going.
I try to keep my head down and deal with people on individual basis or deal with bread and butter issues.
And respecting other people's space. I used to tenants rep. Informally some communities in area had there space and we had ours and it all worked fine
Problems come when there is competition for resources. Or council turn up.
It's why in previous threads I've put forward idea of civic nationalism where we all mind our own business re diversity. And why councils / politicians/ council officers thinking they are doing the right thing by making things an issue make them worse.
Seriously I was at a council consultation meeting while back. Residents turned up . Giving up there own time. First thing we got from the right on council officer was how the fact we turned up was a sign of our "privilege". And how he was going to make sure not only privileged people like us were consulted but also that staple of council speak " the hard to reach"
I'm against immigration controls and for living in multicultural society. But if this is the kind of discourse authorities use then I can understand why some people get completely turned off and resent it
Imo at moment there isn't in any form a way to discuss race / multiculturalism( class just gets forgotten) in this country in way that is constructive.
You realise that says 800 in a week?
