If the 'Independent Newspaper', was in a infiltrated buy Al Qaeda sympathizers...

[Greebozz]

Hello everyone, thank you for your responses particularly Aldebaran, who summed up what I meant particularly the last paragraph of his post.

Reading back my OP I realise it does have a very accusing tone, I apologise for that. I am concerned there is far too much "my enemies enemy is my friend"mentality going on in the media and with the 'Anti war movement'. I fear there is the risk, that those who want to see harm done to the UK are capitalise in on the anti war feeling in this country.

I just made the post as a warning about what I see happening in the media. I don't like the 'Independent Newspaper' as I do feel it is enemy propaganda. I did not also like 'Meeting the Taliban' with the journalist asking groverlling questions to the Taliban leader to making lookalike 'the big man' and a hero against the nasty invaders.

 

[iROBOT]

I did not also like 'Meeting the Taliban' with the journalist asking groverlling questions to the Taliban leader to making lookalike 'the big man' and a hero against the nasty invaders.

Maybe he liked having his head attached to his body? Just a thought.

I think what you are trying to say can be summed up in the English phrase "between a rock and a hard place" Which is what I feel, and I suspect many share my frustrations.

 

[Greebozz]

Maybe he liked having his head attached to his body? Just a thought.

I think what you are trying to say can be summed up in the English phrase "between a rock and a hard place" Which is what I feel, and I suspect many share my frustrations.

Yes good point, in fact the interviewer was not that bad, what annoyed me was the camp looked like paradise, young guys hanging out together and the leader inviting Muslims from all over the world to come and join his group,

I agree with your second point to.
There is an old saying "the greatest thing that the devil achieved was to convince everyone he did not exist"

The greatest thing that Al Quaeda has achieved is making people not realise how much it has won.

I find it frightening to think that if you asked every teenager in Britain why the war started in Iraq they would probably will answer "because America wanted to steal Iraq's oil" and would have no recollection of 9/11. A whole generation of hearts and minds won over to self hatred.

 

[Blagsta]

Hello everyone, thank you for your responses particularly Aldebaran, who summed up what I meant particularly the last paragraph of his post.

Reading back my OP I realise it does have a very accusing tone, I apologise for that. I am concerned there is far too much "my enemies enemy is my friend"mentality going on in the media and with the 'Anti war movement'. I fear there is the risk, that those who want to see harm done to the UK are capitalise in on the anti war feeling in this country.

I just made the post as a warning about what I see happening in the media. I don't like the 'Independent Newspaper' as I do feel it is enemy propaganda. I did not also like 'Meeting the Taliban' with the journalist asking groverlling questions to the Taliban leader to making lookalike 'the big man' and a hero against the nasty invaders.

What on earth are you on about?

 

[Blagsta]

I find it frightening to think that if you asked every teenager in Britain why the war started in Iraq they would probably will answer "because America wanted to steal Iraq's oil" and would have no recollection of 9/11. A whole generation of hearts and minds won over to self hatred.

Remind me again - what did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

 

[Pete the Greek]

you lot are being deliberately cruel and unkind towards Greebozz. You damn well know what his underlying point is, and you're using his shit grammar as an excuse to shit all over his argument.

Nicely handled numnuts. Well played.

My point would be: Who gives a flying fuck what that student viewspaper pile of wank fest says. It's got a readership of under 1/8th of a mill per day. It's the poorest performing rag, below the Express would you believe. No-one reads it, it has carved out a niche market of naive know-nothing politics undergraduates and wannabe ecowarriors. Who gives. A. Fuck.

Not me. Not anyone with a brain.
Its journos are shite, its editor is a washed up has been feminist who doesn't even know what feminism means anymore, unless it's to do with dress sizes and chai tea lattes in Starbucks.

Yes, it has a massively anti-UK, Anti-American stance, but unless you belong to one of the aforementioned groups, you'll ignore it and take it with a pinch of salt like you're supposed to...if indeed, there exists much in the way of grey matter within the skull region.

Have I made my point clear?

 

[Blagsta]

You damn well know what his underlying point is,

Actually I haven't a clue.

 

[Blagsta]

Have I made my point clear?

Well you've made yourself look like a fool. Again.

So, yes, clear as day.

 

[Pete the Greek]

Actually I haven't a clue.

come off it. He expresses himself like a mute in an Iron Maiden, but you can still read adequately between the lines.

He's talking about a generation of sheep who willingly bleat the line that America is bad, is after Iraq's oil etc and just swallowing the inane line fed by the Indy.
Badly put, but ultimately a decent point.

 

[Blagsta]

You must be living on a different planet to me.

 

[audiotech]

You must be living on a different planet to me.

Everyone lives on a different planet to you Blagsta.

 

[Pete the Greek]

You must be living on a different planet to me.

do they call you bullet?

 

[Blagsta]

do they call you bullet?

Have you been drinking?

 

[Pete the Greek]

Have you been drinking?

?
have you been injecting?

 

[Blagsta]

?
have you been injecting?

Ahhhh, you have been drinking.

 

[Pete the Greek]

Ahhhh, you have been drinking.

is that the tell-tale sign? someone asks if you do skag?
You should be employd by CID. You're good, Blag. Daaamnnn goooord.

Right, where were we? Oh yes, me being right, again, as usual.

*yawn* gets boring this being right and generally amazing all the time thing.

 

[Blagsta]

You're making even less sense than Greebozz.

 

[Stanley Edwards]

The Independent has excellent (and not so excellent) writers writing from all points.

It has gone a bit tabloid recently, but it still gives a voice to writers from all persuasions that wouldn't otherwise get a voice.

I still like it even though it's lowering itself to tabloid level.

I suspect the writer of the OP has never read a whole edition. It gives a shout to all generally.

 

[iROBOT]

I find it frightening to think that if you asked every teenager in Britain why the war started in Iraq they would probably will answer "because America wanted to steal Iraq's oil" and would have no recollection of 9/11. A whole generation of hearts and minds won over to self hatred.

I must disagree, Iraq and Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, infact Saddam historically is an oppressor of radical Islam, he killed off dozens of leading Muslim clerics in his invasion of Kuwait. And lets not forget the war with Iran. It's only when the USA turned on their old friend, he started on the Islamic bandwagon, not that convincingly either.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well, if you don't like reading in the Independent about the tremendously advantagous new deals that the oil majors are in the process of signing with the present weak and divided Iraq government, you can always read about it in mainstream papers elsewhere than the US and UK.

Critics say the US is leaning on the IMF and World Bank to push Iraq into signing oil contracts fast, so western firms can secure the oil before Chinese, Indian and Russian firms do. An IMF official told SPIEGEL ONLINE that "passage of a hydrocarbon law is not a condition for financial support from the IMF." Nevertheless, Iraqi authorities found it necessary to promise the IMF a draft petroleum law by the end of this year -- this in the same letter that says "we will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that the program remains on track."

The IMF sets the conditions for Iraq's debt relief from the so-called Paris Club countries. Eighty percent of that debt has been wiped clean, and the final 20 percent depends on certain economic reforms. With the final reduction, Iraq's debt would come to 33 percent of its GDP -- but if the reforms are not made, debt would climb to 57 percent of GDP, according to an IMF report.

Criticisms have also been levelled against the World Bank, where former US deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz is in charge. Wolfowitz has been accused of pushing a US agenda after opening a World Bank office in Baghdad.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,456212,00.html

I still haven't seen any evidence whatsoever suggesting that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 though, so that point is still a confusing me a bit.

However, I don't really understand exactly how making an informed judgement based on evidence that controlling Iraq's oil was a major motivation in invading them, rather than swallowing government propaganda and lies about a non-existent connection between Saddam and 911, is 'self-hatred'.

Can you help me to understand this part of your reasoning Greeboz?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Here's a quote that for me, sums up the debate I think you're trying to have far better than I ever could.

"Millions have chosen to move beyond the prophesying of smooth patriotism to the high grounds of firm dissent, based upon the mandates of conscience and the reading of history. Now, of course, one of the difficulties in speaking out today grows out of the fact that there are those who are seeking to equate dissent with disloyalty. It's a dog day in our nation when high level authorities will seek to use every method to silence dissent. Something is happening and people are not going to be silent. The truth must be told. And I say that those who are seeking to make it appear that anyone who opposes the war in Vietnam is a fool or a traitor or an enemy of our soldiers is a person who has taken a stand against the best in our tradition."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr., April 16th, 1967, Ebenezar Baptist Church, Atlanta, GA

 

[rhod]

I don't like the 'Independent Newspaper' as I do feel it is enemy propaganda.

Can you provide some examples to back up this assertion?

 

[Greebozz]

you lot are being deliberately cruel and unkind towards Greebozz. You damn well know what his underlying point is, and you're using his shit grammar as an excuse to shit all over his argument.

Nicely handled numnuts. Well played.

My point would be: Who gives a flying fuck what that student viewspaper pile of wank fest says. It's got a readership of under 1/8th of a mill per day. It's the poorest performing rag, below the Express would you believe. No-one reads it, it has carved out a niche market of naive know-nothing politics undergraduates and wannabe ecowarriors. Who gives. A. Fuck.

Not me. Not anyone with a brain.
Its journos are shite, its editor is a washed up has been feminist who doesn't even know what feminism means anymore, unless it's to do with dress sizes and chai tea lattes in Starbucks.

Yes, it has a massively anti-UK, Anti-American stance, but unless you belong to one of the aforementioned groups, you'll ignore it and take it with a pinch of salt like you're supposed to...if indeed, there exists much in the way of grey matter within the skull region.

Have I made my point clear?

Thank Pete the Greek, for backing me up, great sum up of the situation and the Independent newspaper. And I do read it quite a lot as it is the only one my local library gets. Comeback Guardian all is forgiven.


The point about Iraq and 9/11

Saddam Hussain a total an absolute enemy of the US and Britain. There is no question about this.


He looked like he was developing chemical weapons, he had in the past been exploring nuclear energy but the reactor was bombed by Israel.


Some people think he wanted to act that he still had chemical weapons to keep Iran an possibly the US at bay.


The Britain and US were concerned that a terrorist group would do a deal with Saddam to carry out a chemical strike against the two countries.


It was felt that the consequences of this happening were so serious that Britain and the US had to be sure.


And to that end have achieved this objective.



Disagree with the war in a Iraq but please don't say you do understand it.

 

[mauvais]

Christ. Are you two all that the right wing nutjobs left behind?

 

[Blagsta]

Thank Pete the Greek, for backing me up, great sum up of the situation and the Independent newspaper. And I do read it quite a lot as it is the only one my local library gets. Comeback Guardian all is forgiven.


The point about Iraq and 9/11

Saddam Hussain a total an absolute enemy of the US and Britain. There is no question about this.


He looked like he was developing chemical weapons, he had in the past been exploring nuclear energy but the reactor was bombed by Israel.


Some people think he wanted to act that he still had chemical weapons to keep Iran an possibly the US at bay.


The Britain and US were concerned that a terrorist group would do a deal with Saddam to carry out a chemical strike against the two countries.


It was felt that the consequences of this happening were so serious that Britain and the US had to be sure.


And to that end have achieved this objective.



Disagree with the war in a Iraq but please don't say you do understand it.

You're living in a fantasy world.

 

[Greebozz]

You're living in a fantasy world.

Are you still in the "love in years" let's party and all get along, no one could possibly want to hurt decent nice people like myself? Its all nasty Bush's fault.

 

[Yossarian]

Thank Pete the Greek, for backing me up, great sum up of the situation and the Independent newspaper. And I do read it quite a lot as it is the only one my local library gets. Comeback Guardian all is forgiven.


The point about Iraq and 9/11

Saddam Hussain a total an absolute enemy of the US and Britain. There is no question about this.


He looked like he was developing chemical weapons, he had in the past been exploring nuclear energy but the reactor was bombed by Israel.


Some people think he wanted to act that he still had chemical weapons to keep Iran an possibly the US at bay.


The Britain and US were concerned that a terrorist group would do a deal with Saddam to carry out a chemical strike against the two countries.


It was felt that the consequences of this happening were so serious that Britain and the US had to be sure.


And to that end have achieved this objective.



Disagree with the war in a Iraq but please don't say you do understand it.

Why single out The Independent? I don't think there's a single national newspaper in this country that still endorses the views you're setting out there, although admittedly I haven't read News for the Stupid this week.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Thank Pete the Greek, for backing me up, great sum up of the situation and the Independent newspaper. And I do read it quite a lot as it is the only one my local library gets. Comeback Guardian all is forgiven.


The point about Iraq and 9/11

Saddam Hussain a total an absolute enemy of the US and Britain. There is no question about this.


He looked like he was developing chemical weapons, he had in the past been exploring nuclear energy but the reactor was bombed by Israel.


Some people think he wanted to act that he still had chemical weapons to keep Iran an possibly the US at bay.


The Britain and US were concerned that a terrorist group would do a deal with Saddam to carry out a chemical strike against the two countries.


It was felt that the consequences of this happening were so serious that Britain and the US had to be sure.


And to that end have achieved this objective.



Disagree with the war in a Iraq but please don't say you do understand it.

We're still waiting for you to explain how Iraq and 9/11 are connected.

 

[Greebozz]

We're still waiting for you to explain how Iraq and 9/11 are connected.

Hi VP, I is a bit like saying, prove to me I will have a car accident and then I will put on my seatbelt.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Hi VP, I is a bit like saying, prove to me I will have a car accident and then I will put on my seatbelt.

Would it help if I asked a weaker question than 'can you prove it'?

What about if I asked why you believe that there is a connection between Saddam's Iraq and 9/11 and why you believe that this is something that others should take into account?