I think that might be the final straw for me at the RailUK forums

[teuchter]

Let's say it was an elderly passenger. Who was travelling with a perfectly valid ticket, but was made to feel by the member of staff that they were breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if they are "let through" - they are left withe the impression they have done something wrong. Next time when they want to make the same journey they are scared to use a cross-London ticket because of this experience. So perhaps they buy two separate train tickets, plus an undergound fare to connect between them. This costs them £30 extra. Back at home it's cold and they don't have much money. They are £30 short for the meter and they try to make do with no heating. They get hypothermia and die. People on this forum would be applauding this result, because it was just a mundane error on the part of the LU staff. The right thing was done. No-one complained. It was maybe unfortunate for the passenger, but in the bigger picture, the fact that the staff member didn't get told off was more important. In fact people from this forum would probably turn up at the funeral of that elderly person to harass their family with banners saying it served them right and that they should stop making a fuss. The victim is to blame. They would be like those Westboro Baptist church people, with their banners at funerals. Except the people at urban75 forums, where victim blaming is endemic, would be worse that those Westboro Baptist Church people. The whole thing is disgusting. Personally I think you should probably all be arrested. Maybe the police could make up some phoney charge against you, and we could say "oh well, just a mundane error".

 

[teuchter]

why did the computer say no then? i'm still in the dark about what the problem was that kicked this all off

If you've not managed to understand this really rather simple situation by now, it's probably best to give up. And stop pestering Bungle.

 

[A380]

... You just don't care. You don't care that someone in position of authority has taken ii upon themselves to detain people erroneously. Not only do you not care, you think that they should be allowed to carry on doing it.

You know what, don't expect any sympathy from me the next time one of you comes bleating on here about how you've been treated "unfairly" by rail staff. You won't deserve it.

Yes, I’ll be sorry when I try to get off at Perivale with a zone three ticket and something almost identical to this happens to me.

 

[Bungle73]

No, the machine did not fail. The machine functioned as intended. The member of staff made a fundamental error. Not a mundane error. A failure to carry out the core component of their responsibilities. People here are posting from a position of profound ignorance here. And they are ignoring what Bungle73 is trying to explain.

Thank you for your posts. Sadly, as far as I can tell, no one here is taking a blind bit of notice of anything you have posted. They're all far more concerned with having a pop at me.

Maybe you didn't use that wording, but you do give the impression that you are unhappy with the way the complaint was dealt with. You were advised that the person you complained about was going to be spoken to. Was there anything else that you think should have happened?

Gave the impression where exactly?

Victim ? For fuck sake grow up. Anyone boring on and on and on over some trivial mistake would get the piss ripped out of them too.

I have done no such thing. I suggest you refrain from telling lies about me. And of course I was the victim. I wasn't the fucking perpetrator was I? Although everyone here seems to think that I was.........

 

[Orang Utan]

If you've not managed to understand this really rather simple situation by now, it's probably best to give up. And stop pestering Bungle.

it's really not clear at all.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Let's say it was an elderly passenger. Who was travelling with a perfectly valid ticket, but was made to feel by the member of staff that they were breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if they are "let through" - they are left withe the impression they have done something wrong. Next time when they want to make the same journey they are scared to use a cross-London ticket because of this experience. So perhaps they buy two separate train tickets, plus an undergound fare to connect between them. This costs them £30 extra. Back at home it's cold and they don't have much money. They are £30 short for the meter and they try to make do with no heating. They get hypothermia and die. People on this forum would be applauding this result, because it was just a mundane error on the part of the LU staff. The right thing was done. No-one complained. In fact people from this forum would probably turn up at the funeral of that elderly person to harass their family with banners saying it served them right. The victim is to blame. They would be like those Westboro Baptist church people, with their banners at funerals. Except the people at urban75 forums, where victim blaming is endemic, would be worse that those Westboro Baptist Church people. The whole thing is disgusting. Personally I think you should probably all be arrested. Maybe the police could make up some phoney charge against you, and we could say "oh well, just a mundane error".

 

[Orang Utan]

Gave the impression where exactly?

OK then, the situation has been resolved and I've been wasting my time. I was trying to help. I have no wish to malign you and no interest in making cruel comments to fuel something some posters find entertaining.
Are you happy with the way your complaint was dealt with? I hope so.

 

[T & P]

No, the machine did not fail. The machine functioned as intended. The member of staff made a fundamental error. Not a mundane error. A failure to carry out the core component of their responsibilities. People here are posting from a position of profound ignorance here. And they are ignoring what Bungle73 is trying to explain.

Whereas there has been a bit of pisstaking going on, as far as I can see most people are not claiming the LU employee did not make a mistake, but that Bungle massively overreacted. Had he been detained, issued with a penalty fare, had the police called on him etc we could start discussing gross negligence or rightful indignation. But it all boiled down to a short interaction followed by Bungle being allowed to carry on without further action taken by the employee. Do you actually think his making a formal complaint about it was a proportionate response? Would you have done the same if found in a similar situation?

 

[xenon]

Let's say it was an elderly passenger. Who was travelling with a perfectly valid ticket, but was made to feel by the member of staff that they were breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if they are "let through" - they are left withe the impression they have done something wrong. Next time when they want to make the same journey they are scared to use a cross-London ticket because of this experience. So perhaps they buy two separate train tickets, plus an undergound fare to connect between them. This costs them £30 extra. Back at home it's cold and they don't have much money. They are £30 short for the meter and they try to make do with no heating. They get hypothermia and die. People on this forum would be applauding this result, because it was just a mundane error on the part of the LU staff. The right thing was done. No-one complained. It was maybe unfortunate for the passenger, but in the bigger picture, the fact that the staff member didn't get told off was more important. In fact people from this forum would probably turn up at the funeral of that elderly person to harass their family with banners saying it served them right and that they should stop making a fuss. The victim is to blame. They would be like those Westboro Baptist church people, with their banners at funerals. Except the people at urban75 forums, where victim blaming is endemic, would be worse that those Westboro Baptist Church people. The whole thing is disgusting. Personally I think you should probably all be arrested. Maybe the police could make up some phoney charge against you, and we could say "oh well, just a mundane error".

Patronising toss.

 

[teuchter]

it's really not clear at all.

1) The machine pinged "seek assistance", which is what is supposed to happen, so a member of staff can check the ticket is not being misused.
2) Bungle's ticket had the cross-London validation marked on it clearly. This is not an obscure marking; LU staff probably see hundreds of them each day.
3) This means his ticket was valid.
4) The staff member claimed his ticket was not valid. They were 100% clearly in the wrong.
5) Bungle objected, drawing their attention to the cross-London validation marking, which they might perhaps have missed
6) Even so, they persist in claiming that the ticket is not valid
7) They let him through but without accepting the ticket is valid
8) Therefore the next time someone comes through with the same type of ticket, the member of staff will do the same thing again.

 

[T & P]

Thank you for your posts. Sadly, as far as I can tell, no one here is taking a blind bit of notice of anything you have posted. They're all far more concerned with having a pop at me.......

Bungle, most people here (or at the very least, a majority of people) are not saying the LU employee was right and you were wrong. Most people are taking issue with your reaction to the incident. Can you really not see that, even if you believe your response was proportionate?

 

[A380]

This would never have happened if you'd used one of those tickets with the cross on.

You bastard. This made me choke on my beer and actually cry real tears. Ms 747 is looking at me like I’m demented.

 

[neonwilderness]

This costs them £30 extra. Back at home it's cold and they don't have much money. They are £30 short for the meter and they try to make do with no heating. They get hypothermia and die.

They could bunk the fare and spent the money on heating instead. Bungle would be apoplectic though.

 

[mauvais]

Let's say it was an elderly passenger. Who was travelling with a perfectly valid ticket, but was made to feel by the member of staff that they were breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if they are "let through" - they are left withe the impression they have done something wrong. Next time when they want to make the same journey they are scared to use a cross-London ticket because of this experience. So perhaps they buy two separate train tickets, plus an undergound fare to connect between them. This costs them £30 extra. Back at home it's cold and they don't have much money. They are £30 short for the meter and they try to make do with no heating. They get hypothermia and die.

Surely we'd only know why they died if they'd bothered to chronicle the whole fucking thing on here beforehand, in which case so much heat and light would have been generated therein that they'd have been positively revived by the sad affair and never died at all, maybe even selling off their excess energy back to the grid and using the windfall to buy anti-aging cream or a well-deserved rail holiday, which I'm sure you'll agree is a good & proper paradox, and much like travelling back in time to kill your no doubt fare-evading grandfather, creating paradoxes is really not to be encouraged, so how about we resolutely give no fucks about any of it?

 

[nogojones]

1) The machine pinged "seek assistance", which is what is supposed to happen, so a member of staff can check the ticket is not being misused.
2) Bungle's ticket had the cross-London validation marked on it clearly. This is not an obscure marking; LU staff probably see hundreds of them each day.
3) This means his ticket was valid.
4) The staff member claimed his ticket was not valid. They were 100% clearly in the wrong.
5) Bungle objected, drawing their attention to the cross-London validation marking, which they might perhaps have missed
6) Even so, they persist in claiming that the ticket is not valid
7) They let him through but without accepting the ticket is valid
8) Therefore the next time someone comes through with the same type of ticket, the member of staff will do the same thing again.

So to stop this sort of untoward event happening again with the aim of saving an OAP or two from freezing, should we not be writing to LU to complain about the faulty ticket machine?

 

[Orang Utan]

1) The machine pinged "seek assistance", which is what is supposed to happen, so a member of staff can check the ticket is not being misused.
2) Bungle's ticket had the cross-London validation marked on it clearly. This is not an obscure marking; LU staff probably see hundreds of them each day.
3) This means his ticket was valid.
4) The staff member claimed his ticket was not valid. They were 100% clearly in the wrong.
5) Bungle objected, drawing their attention to the cross-London validation marking, which they might perhaps have missed
6) Even so, they persist in claiming that the ticket is not valid
7) They let him through but without accepting the ticket is valid
8) Therefore the next time someone comes through with the same type of ticket, the member of staff will do the same thing again.

OK, but what's not clear, still, is why the machine pinged a valid ticket.
and a letter/email was received, promising the staff member would be advised correctly, so your final assertion is not correct

 

[xenon]

Let's say it was an elderly passenger. Who was travelling with a perfectly valid ticket, but was made to feel by the member of staff that they were breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if they are "let through" - they are left withe the impression they have done something wrong. Next time when they want to make the same journey they are scared to use a cross-London ticket because of this experience. So perhaps they buy two separate train tickets, plus an undergound fare to connect between them. This costs them £30 extra. Back at home it's cold and they don't have much money. They are £30 short for the meter and they try to make do with no heating. They get hypothermia and die. People on this forum would be applauding this result, because it was just a mundane error on the part of the LU staff. The right thing was done. No-one complained. It was maybe unfortunate for the passenger, but in the bigger picture, the fact that the staff member didn't get told off was more important. In fact people from this forum would probably turn up at the funeral of that elderly person to harass their family with banners saying it served them right and that they should stop making a fuss. The victim is to blame. They would be like those Westboro Baptist church people, with their banners at funerals. Except the people at urban75 forums, where victim blaming is endemic, would be worse that those Westboro Baptist Church people. The whole thing is disgusting. Personally I think you should probably all be arrested. Maybe the police could make up some phoney charge against you, and we could say "oh well, just a mundane error".

TBH I didn't read this post in entirety the first time. Having now done so, well done.

 

[nogojones]

Did they really talk to the staff member concerned though?

Didn't there used to be a tube driver on here? Or were they sent to LU's re-education camps

 

[Supine]

I travel across London on a train ticket twice a week. Probably 20% of the time the ticket gets pinged somewhere on route. I always just wave it at the guard, they smile and let me through. It's not a big deal.

 

[Bungle73]

Bungle, most people here (or at the very least, a majority of people) are not saying the LU employee was right and you were wrong. Most people are taking issue with your reaction to the incident. Can you really not see that, even if you believe your response was proportionate?

My reaction? The reaction where I tried to ensure this doesn't happen to anyone else? Are you for real?

 

[teuchter]

Do you actually think his making a formal complaint about it was a proportionate response?

Yes, without question.

Would you have done the same if found in a similar situation?

I might. If I didn't, it would be through laziness rather than because I thought it was a small enough error that it didn't matter if it was allowed to perpetuate.

 

[mauvais]

I tell you what though, if anyone wants to protest a possibly fictional funeral with a placard that says something like, 'GOD HATES NATIONAL ROUTING GUIDE RULE VIOLATORS', then let me know and I'll pay for your travel expenses.

 

[teuchter]

I travel across London on a train ticket twice a week. Probably 20% of the time the ticket gets pinged somewhere on route. I always just wave it at the guard, they smile and let me through. It's not a big deal.

You've just demonstrated that you haven't read the details of what's being discussed at all.

 

[A380]

I tell you what though, if anyone wants to protest a possibly fictional funeral with a placard that says something like, 'GOD HATES NATIONAL ROUTING GUIDE RULE VIOLATORS', then let me know and I'll pay for your travel expenses.

Make sure the ticket has a cross on it.

 

[teuchter]

OK, but what's not clear, still, is why the machine pinged a valid ticket.

See item (1).
The LU machines may not be able to read the full information contained on an NR ticket. So it is referred to a human who is supposed to know the rules.

and a letter/email was received, promising the staff member would be advised correctly, so your final assertion is not correct

My final assertion is what would happen had Bungle not complained, which some here seem to think would have been the appropriate response on his part.

 

[neonwilderness]

I tell you what though, if anyone wants to protest a possibly fictional funeral with a placard that says something like, 'GOD HATES NATIONAL ROUTING GUIDE RULE VIOLATORS', then let me know and I'll pay for your travel expenses.

It seems to me that if Bungle had the forethought to carry a copy of the T&Cs with him, he could have admonished the member of staff immediately and avoided the needless death of a fictional pensioner.

 

[teuchter]

I tell you what though, if anyone wants to protest a possibly fictional funeral with a placard that says something like, 'GOD HATES NATIONAL ROUTING GUIDE RULE VIOLATORS', then let me know and I'll pay for your travel expenses.

This is not what the placards would say though. They would be saying the opposite.

 

[DaveCinzano]

This is not what the placards would say though. They would be saying the opposite.

 

[Supine]

You've just demonstrated that you haven't read the details of what's being discussed at all.

 

[existentialist]

Don't mind teuchter. He has his little ways.