Can anyone please direct me to a site that lists London bus routes in full?

[Puddy_Tat]

Well, I guess given the mind-blowing permutations, variations, restrictions and rules governing rail fares in the UK, I guess it would have been damned rude of the bus network to make it any easier for pensioners.

it's only fairly recently (the blair / brown years) that it's been a national scheme across england - until about late 90s, each local authority (and by that i mean district / borough not county) had powers to run a concessionary scheme locally - so it only covered journeys within (or starting in or sometimes ending in) each council area, and might be free, or a discounted rate, or they might issue X value worth of tokens each year. (some municipal operators had concessionary schemes as far back as the 1920s, and a London wide scheme was brought in by the GLC in the 70s) - and a few councils did bugger all until it became a legal requirement.

initially, a (local only) half fare scheme was required nationally in england, this then became local only free travel, then the full english national scheme some time around the late 00's. i was in the local authority side of things then, and one of my colleagues got it implemented locally (the 'behind the scenes' includes complicated sums about how much bus operators get from councils) then retired, then spent about 3 weeks travelling round the edges of england on his new pass...

 

[scifisam]

Also, now Cross Rail is open. The Royal Artillery museum in Woolwich will be much easier to get to.

Also, have you seen the Ceremony of the Keys at the Tower? You get a private tour first as they close up. You need an invite, but I'm sure your regimental (pr equivalent) association will be able to put you in touch with them.

You don't need an invite, you just apply for tickets. There was a batch released today so there's still a reasonable chance of getting some. There's no private tour with this option, though.

There is a military museum inside the Tower, the Royal Engineers Museum, separate to the Tower itself. It costs extra - not much, but I'm fairly sure ex-military with ID can get in free if they want to. They're so nice they actually offered me free entry just because my Grandad was in the Royal Engineers, but I was happy to pay.

 

[teuchter]

i'm not personally involved at any level in what goes in to the TFL journey planner, but all does not seem entirely well.

the tech behind it was developed in the early 2000's for one of the german cities, and was (when it was launched in 2002) quite new and radical, and offered options to plan to / from addresses / postcodes / areas / points of interest (eg. museums, shopping centres) so was quite a step forward then.

compare with national rail enquiries which has about 2,500 railway stations - there are 19,000 bus stops in london

i'm sure the software has been updated over the years, but i'm starting to wonder if the whole thing needs a 'start from scratch' review rather than mere updates.

the other strand to anything like this is that it does require time and effort to make sure that the data goes in is right in the first place, and to try and work out why any silliness is happening and put a stop to it. I'm aware TFL has been in something of a financial tailspin for some time, and they may well be short of staff. Again, experience elsewhere has shown that some senior management / politicians are keen on having shiny new system, but say 'look at the big picture' when it comes to the boring stuff like getting the data right...

TfL's journey planner is definitely going downhill.

I used to regard it (and TfL information generally) as pretty rock solid and reliable.

Don't need to tell you how important reliable information is for an effective public transport service.

A few months ago, I lost an hour or more on a late night bus journey across south london because it seemed that no-one had bothered to tell the system that a certain bus route was diverted (and not just a momentary diversion - it must have been in place for a few days as the road was literally impassable with a big hole dug in it). So, the journey planner directed us to a certain bus stop, and told us a bus would be there in X minutes, but no bus ever turned up because that bus stop was on the closed part of the route. It was than not even possible to find out which part of the route was diverted - so we had to walk it until we found where the diversion re-appeared. All of this would have been a big deal for anyone with mobility problems or not confident about finding their own way.

I did get in touch with TfL about it and some time later a fairly dismissive response arrived. The type you might expect from a short-staffed organisation. I feel that making the same complaint ten years ago would have been met with much more action.

Of course, when information like diversions just isn't entered, it's not just the TfL planner that fails but any that draw their information from TfL. So citymapper also gave wrong information.

But recently I've noticed TfL's journey planner giving various strange routes (while citymapper suggests something more sensible). For example, journeys which can now be done with one step free interchange between Thameslink & Elizabeth Line ... it seems to refuse to offer those, instead sending you on slower routes using multiple tube lines and/or buses.

Not very good timing for their system to start falling apart, just when they launch the TfL Go app. For a long time they held out from doing their own app, the idea being that they just serve the data and others (like citymapper) make use of it.

Makes me wonder if a load of resource was diverted to developing & maintaining the TfL Go app, which should have stayed with keeping their basic data reliable.

 

[A380]

You don't need an invite, you just apply for tickets. There was a batch released today so there's still a reasonable chance of getting some. There's no private tour with this option, though.

There is a military museum inside the Tower, the Royal Engineers Museum, separate to the Tower itself. It costs extra - not much, but I'm fairly sure ex-military with ID can get in free if they want to. They're so nice they actually offered me free entry just because my Grandad was in the Royal Engineers, but I was happy to pay.

Ok, I’ve done it a couple of times where you do a tour as they close, watch the ceremony and then go for a meal and drinks in the Yeoman Warders bar. - you pay for the meal and buy the guide their drinks. Looks like you can also get a ticket just to the ceremony.

Either is a great thing to di.

 

[teuchter]

Regarding the British Museum, I recommend the back entrance on Montague Place. Much easier than the main entrance.

Last time I went, a few weeks ago, they weren't letting people in here any more and we had to walk all the way around to the front and go in through the annoying and elaborate security queuing thing they have there now.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

A few months ago, I lost an hour or more on a late night bus journey across south london because it seemed that no-one had bothered to tell the system that a certain bus route was diverted (and not just a momentary diversion - it must have been in place for a few days as the road was literally impassable with a big hole dug in it).

a couple of times in the last few months, mum-tat's local bus route (it's a relatively low frequency / back road / small bus route) has been on diversion, and the info has been on an unofficial, enthusiast run site before it's been on anything official...

i get the impression that at least some people within TFL regard buses (and their passengers, and people who work for bus operators) as somewhat less important than the rail based transport forms...

 

[scifisam]

Last time I went, a few weeks ago, they weren't letting people in here any more and we had to walk all the way around to the front and go in through the annoying and elaborate security queuing thing they have there now.

You can use that entrance if you have a disability (it was stopped for a while during covid, but is available again now), and they're not strict about eligibility. I think having fought in the Boer War would make them assume Sas was eligible.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You can use that entrance if you have a disability (it was stopped for a while during covid, but is available again now), and they're not strict about eligibility. I think having fought in the Boer War would make them assume Sas was eligible.

Coach parties also use it, so you can get unlucky if you time your arrival just after a couple of coachloads. But mostly it's much quicker than the front and it's free for anyone to use. I go to the BM quite a bit and always go that way.

I pass by there a lot. I did notice it was closed recently for some reason, probably to do with staffing. It was open this week when I passed by.

 

[teuchter]

I think there was a sign saying coach parties only when we tried to go in there.

 

[klang]

Fill yer boots Sasaferrato
View attachment 358275

on a side note - can highly recommend ordering this. You even get a little hand written note. Seems to be one guy's labour of love...

 

[klang]

Royal Artillery museum in Woolwich

...

Keys at the Tower

for anyone good on their feet and with an afternoon to spare: Woolwich Arsenal -> Tower is a great walk, all along the Thames.

 

[spitfire]

You don't need an invite, you just apply for tickets. There was a batch released today so there's still a reasonable chance of getting some. There's no private tour with this option, though.

There is a military museum inside the Tower, the Royal Engineers Museum, separate to the Tower itself. It costs extra - not much, but I'm fairly sure ex-military with ID can get in free if they want to. They're so nice they actually offered me free entry just because my Grandad was in the Royal Engineers, but I was happy to pay.

Cool!

Still some tickets available.

Ticket selection - Tower of London - Historic Royal Palaces official site

tickets.hrp.org.uk

Ceremony of the Keys​

The traditional locking up of the Tower of London
Be one of the few to witness this ancient ceremony, unchanged for hundreds of years.

The ceremony takes place after visiting hours so no refreshment or toilet facilities are available.

Photography is not permitted during the ceremony. It is illegal to sell or purchase tickets for the Ceremony of the Keys via third parties; Historic Royal Palaces reserve the right to refuse permission if a valid form of ID is not presented on the evening. Multiple bookings will be cancelled.

Tickets are limited and sell out in advance. Ticket will be released on the first working day of the month for the following month at midday.

 

[Sasaferrato]

You don't need an invite, you just apply for tickets. There was a batch released today so there's still a reasonable chance of getting some. There's no private tour with this option, though.

There is a military museum inside the Tower, the Royal Engineers Museum, separate to the Tower itself. It costs extra - not much, but I'm fairly sure ex-military with ID can get in free if they want to. They're so nice they actually offered me free entry just because my Grandad was in the Royal Engineers, but I was happy to pay.

My father was in the Engineers, then transferred to Signal, then cipher.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Cool!

Still some tickets available.

Ticket selection - Tower of London - Historic Royal Palaces official site

tickets.hrp.org.uk

Ceremony of the Keys​

The traditional locking up of the Tower of London
Be one of the few to witness this ancient ceremony, unchanged for hundreds of years.

The ceremony takes place after visiting hours so no refreshment or toilet facilities are available.

Photography is not permitted during the ceremony. It is illegal to sell or purchase tickets for the Ceremony of the Keys via third parties; Historic Royal Palaces reserve the right to refuse permission if a valid form of ID is not presented on the evening. Multiple bookings will be cancelled.

Tickets are limited and sell out in advance. Ticket will be released on the first working day of the month for the following month at midday.

I'm a wee bit leery of the Tower.

Way back in 1974, The soon to be Mrs Sas and me came South on holiday. We camped near Slough, and drove into London.

The plan was, Oxford Street to get Mrs Sas a pair of clogs, then on to the Tower. The date was 17/07/1974.

We went to Oxford Street, went into a shoe shop, Mrs Sas saw a pair of clogs she liked. We went to every shoe shop in Oxford Street, then back to the first one and bought the clogs.

When we came out of the shoe shop, police and ambulances, sirens blaring, were going down both sides of Oxford Street, a bomb had gone off at the Tower.

 

[Maggot]

...

for anyone good on their feet and with an afternoon to spare: Woolwich Arsenal -> Tower is a great walk, all along the Thames.

It is a good walk, but you'd have to be very fast to do it in an afternoon, even if you cut out the Greenwich peninsula, it's about 10 miles.

 

[spitfire]

I'm a wee bit leery of the Tower.

Way back in 1973, The soon to be Mrs Sas and me came South on holiday. We camped near Slough, and drove into London.

The plan was, Oxford Street to get Mrs Sas a pair of clogs, then on to the Tower. The date was 17/07/2017.

We went to Oxford Street, went into a shoe shop, Mrs Sas saw a pair of clogs she liked. We went to every shoe shop in Oxford Street, then back to the first one and bought the clogs.

When we came out of the shoe shop, police and ambulances, sirens blaring, were going down both sides of Oxford Street, a bomb had gone off at the Tower.

I didn't know about that one, nasty business. Looks like it was '74 though, (not that it matters).

1974 Tower of London bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hash tag]

I imagine Sasaferrato that this is a must do

 

[Sasaferrato]

I didn't know about that one, nasty business. Looks like it was '74 though, (not that it matters).

1974 Tower of London bombing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was. Don't know how I cocked up the date.

 

[WouldBe]

I imagine Sasaferrato that this is a must do
View attachment 360430

A folding version of a rack? Poor Sass.

 

[hash tag]

A folding version of a rack? Poor Sass.

Sasaferrato you know what this is?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sasaferrato you know what this is?

It is a printing press.

 

[hash tag]

It is a printing press.

It is, but it is more than that, certainly to you I imagine

 

[spitfire]

It was. Don't know how I cocked up the date.

It was a long time ago, easily done. I was 3.

Also you have many, many, many years to remember...

 

[WouldBe]

It is, but it is more than that, certainly to you I imagine
View attachment 360442

You saying Sass used to operate it?

 

[hash tag]

Possibly. In the second pic you can make out part of the kings collection In the British library. That press printed the penny black and many other stamps It is surrounded by stamps. The BL hold some 90 million stamps in their collection.

 

[hash tag]

Another for sass's list?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Another for sass's list?
View attachment 360675

Very expensive.

 

[friedaweed]

The next time I'm in London, I'll be using busses rather than the tube. I've effectively got a lung and a bit, and the long hot walks on the tube are arduous.

It may take a bit longer by bus, but time isn't an issue.

What I want to do is plot the change stops to get to where ever from Waterloo.

Going from Waterloo to Kings Cross was bus from Waterloo to Holborn Station, then another bus to Kings Cross.

I want to plot the routes from Waterloo to the National Gallery (easy), Science Museum, The Tate Gallery etc.

When I'm in London I use a private hire firm called Spymaster . Drop them a call and you wont need a bus mate. He's a bit challenged by the lingo of northern folk but his ride is quite comfortable and he knows all the posh places to wine and dine

 

[Sasaferrato]

It is, but it is more than that, certainly to you I imagine
View attachment 360442

It is the press that in around ten months printed 68,000,000 Penny Blacks.

They came off the press as a single sheet with two panes of 240 labels (as they were described at the time).

 

[hash tag]

It is the press that in around ten months printed 68,000,000 Penny Blacks.

They came off the press as a single sheet with two panes of 240 labels (as they were described at the time).

Our guide showed us a few of the penny blacks in the library, which are all on show to the public. She dismissed them as not being particularly valuable. They have many stamps available for viewing.