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Drivers who don't indicate at junctions

This is all a load of disingenuous bollocks isn't it. The people not indicating where I'm cycling through London aren't hyperaware advanced drivers - they are entitled idiots who don't give enough of a fuck about other people's safety.

There's a big overlap between self-identified 'advanced drivers' and selfish, entitled arseholes IME.

Anyone who thinks they're so fucking great at driving that they can't possibly make a mistake is an obvious liability.
 
There's a big overlap between self-identified 'advanced drivers' and selfish, entitled arseholes IME.

Anyone who thinks they're so fucking great at driving that they can't possibly make a mistake is an obvious liability.
however that overlap disappears when you talk about people who hold up to date civvie AD tickets or hold EFAD/CERAD/ Police emergency driving authorisations
 
There's a big overlap between self-identified 'advanced drivers' and selfish, entitled arseholes IME.

Anyone who thinks they're so fucking great at driving that they can't possibly make a mistake is an obvious liability.
Anyone who is actually good at driving knows they are nowhere as good as they could be. It's kind of the point.
 
Yeah, that's a minuscule difference. And then the country that actually jails people for jaywalking has almost exactly 20 times the pedestrian deaths! I don't think it really shows that jaywalking laws help...

Everyone should take care when crossing the road though, obviously. Even if you were in the right (and you're not always, as a pedestrian) you'd still be dead.
TBF, to account for population differences because those are raw numbers you should divide by 5 (roughly, but also need to consider they have more cars) for the Americans. So you're only four times more likely to die.
 
you seem to be missing the point here

on one side we have people who quite clearly have not engaged in driver development since passing their DSA test ( if they have a full car or motorbike licence ) claiming that you must signal for every manouvere

on the otherside we have people who have been involved in driver development activities whether for pleasure or for work , talking aobut the nuance of applying the System of car Control in daily driving
No, a number of people on the thread have talking as pedestrians or cyclists.

And I don't think the OP started the thread because they were bothered by people not indicating who they weren't even aware of.

I'm sick of them. I walk a lot in London. And this involves a lot of crossing streets, particularly at junctions where there's vehicles approaching and I need to know if they're turning left or right into my path. If there's no indicator blinking then there should be no turning. Period.

I'm absolutely sick to death of cars and vans, just turning without indicating while I'm about to cross. Is it really that hard to pull the little lever? These people should get instant fines and be made to re-sit the highway code theory test. And do hard labour.
 
you seem to be missing the point here

on one side we have people who quite clearly have not engaged in driver development since passing their DSA test ( if they have a full car or motorbike licence ) claiming that you must signal for every manouvere

on the otherside we have people who have been involved in driver development activities whether for pleasure or for work , talking aobut the nuance of applying the System of car Control in daily driving
I’m a cyclist and a pedestrian so I know notbing about cars and driving, but I do think all drivers with indicators should indicate every time they turn at a junction and every time they switch lanes, whether they’re legally required to or not. A decent driving instructor should advise the same. If you always indicate, you’re less likely to forget to. It’s a good habit to establish
 
I’m a cyclist and a pedestrian so I know notbing about cars and driving, but I do think all drivers with indicators should indicate at all times, whether they’re legally required to or not. A decent driving instructor should advise the same. If you always indicate, you’re less likely to forget to. It’s a good habit to establish
if you always indicate you are not assessing the need for the signal
 
I’m a cyclist and a pedestrian so I know notbing about cars and driving, but I do think all drivers with indicators should indicate every time they turn at a junction and every time they switch lanes, whether they’re legally required to or not. A decent driving instructor should advise the same. If you always indicate, you’re less likely to forget to. It’s a good habit to establish

As mentioned before, there is indeed a school of thought against always signalling, but it's hotly contested even amongst advanced drivers. That's how you can tell that Arduis is completely inexperienced aside from possibly doing a course or two recently (or more probably having a quick read of Roadcraft).
 
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if you always indicate you are not assessing the need for the signal
If you always indicate, you'll be indicating even when your assessment fails. In my experience people's assessment fails frequently. For example: when they fail to notice a pedestrian for whom it is relevant where they are going; when they fail to notice a cyclist who might die if they don't notice them but they don't notice them anyway; when they fail to spot someone pulling out of a parking space in the road ahead. Given how often these failures occur, why not just indicate? It costs nothing. If you aren't assessing the road properly your indicator style is going to do fuck all to change that.
 
there's a junction i used fairly frequently it;a T junction but there is a little bit of a bend in the road that goes across the top of the T which impedes visibility and on one side of the road going off there;s greenery that impedes the view , and when doing my 'civvie' advanced driving my commentary on approaching that junction to turn off the main road would be

I can see that i don't have a clear view through the junction if i maintain a normal position, therefore i'm going to position out to if not slightly across the centre line , i also can see i have a limited view off the right due to the greenery soi'm braking sooner and morte firmly thatn i would otherwise , i'm considering signalling to make my intention very clear to any one i can't yet see but who might see me before i have a clear view of them.

further down the same road there's a TOTSO T junction with the road marked to indicate the main road goes round the corner, it;s also very clear sightlines wise , my approch there will be totally different and if it's clear would me no sighalling, no change of speed and kiss the centeline marking as i take the turn off
I suspect this is pure lies - no one thinks that fast. You’re talking about a few seconds at most. Better just indicate and slow down at junctions, regardless of the speed limit. I regularly cross an A-road which has pelican crossing all over one junction and some cars and lorries regularly traverse this junction at 60-70mph as 60 is the limit. It beggars belief that the law doesn’t seem to require motorists to slow down massively at this type of junction. Most cars do slow down, but there are many out there who seem to think they’re playing MarioKart.
 
Yes. And? As I said, if they do it whether they need to or not, they’re establishing a good habit that may save lives
so unthinking action taken wuithout consigeration of the action is better than Applying the Systme of car COntrol and in that first Phase , the information, applying TUG

Take information , use that information give information and signals if required ...

the blanket ' you should always indicate' statement is clearly wrong

those of us talking aobout applying the System of Car Control are not excusing the Steering wheel operatives who crusie around in ignorance...

but the 'always indicate' crowd are wving their Dunning-Kruger cards ina Gove-ian frenzy of ignorance
 
I suspect this is pure lies - no one thinks that fast. You’re talking about a few seconds at most. Better just indicate and slow down at junctions, regardless of the speed limit. I regularly cross an A-road which has pelican crossing all over one junction and some cars and lorries regularly traverse this junction at 60-70mph as 60 is the limit. It beggars belief that the law doesn’t seem to require motorists to slow down massively at this type of junction. Most cars do slow down, but there are many out there who seem to think they’re playing MarioKart.
this is how you are taught to use the system of car control , WITHOUT exemptions

add in the exemptions and we'll talk about offsiding junctions and traffic islands, ignoring certain TROs and driving in excessof the prescribed speed limit ...
 
About once every 2 to 3 years me and Spymaster agree on something, so I won't say it's a complete novelty. But I never in a month of Sundays expected us to agree on something to do with cars. That's how wrong you are InArduisFouette.
i'm so wrong that every 'civilian' advanced driving text, and the materials that Support EFAD and CERAD as well as Roadcraft all talk aobut using the System of car control in this way
 
so unthinking action taken wuithout consigeration of the action is better than Applying the Systme of car COntrol and in that first Phase , the information, applying TUG

Take information , use that information give information and signals if required ...

the blanket ' you should always indicate' statement is clearly wrong

those of us talking aobout applying the System of Car Control are not excusing the Steering wheel operatives who crusie around in ignorance...

but the 'always indicate' crowd are wving their Dunning-Kruger cards ina Gove-ian frenzy of ignorance
What the fuck are you talking about? You clearly have an alarming confidence in your own skills propped up by your achievement of a gold star off of teacher for driving good.
This advanced driver thing seems like a weird smug cult like those fucking audiophiles
 
If you always indicate, you'll be indicating even when your assessment fails. In my experience people's assessment fails frequently. For example: when they fail to notice a pedestrian for whom it is relevant where they are going; when they fail to notice a cyclist who might die if they don't notice them but they don't notice them anyway; when they fail to spot someone pulling out of a parking space in the road ahead. Given how often these failures occur, why not just indicate? It costs nothing. If you aren't assessing the road properly your indicator style is going to do fuck all to change that.
that's why CERAD /EFAD/ Standard response are 120 - 150 hours in duration and have multiple pass or fail theory and practice assessments
 
What the fuck are you talking about? You clearly have an alarming confidence in your own skills propped up by your achievement of a gold star off of teacher for driving good.
This advanced driver thing seems like a weird smug cult like those fucking audiophiles
thanks for confirming your membership of Dunning - Kruger club

i just hope you never need a Cat 1 or cat 2 ambulance response a Police resource on Immediate or an emergency response from the Fire and Rescue Service
 
“Applying The System Of Car Control” sounds like jargon - the tenet of some weird cult, rather than basic driving safety instructions
 
“Applying The System Of Car Control” sounds like jargon - the tenet of some weird cult, rather than basic driving safety instructions
<bing - bong > paging Messers Dunning and Kruger , wou lda member of the Dunning -Kruger party please pick up an organge courtesy phone call from mr O Utan for a member of the Dunning - Kruger party ... <bing - bong >





 
If you always indicate, you'll be indicating even when your assessment fails. In my experience people's assessment fails frequently. For example: when they fail to notice a pedestrian for whom it is relevant where they are going; when they fail to notice a cyclist who might die if they don't notice them but they don't notice them anyway; when they fail to spot someone pulling out of a parking space in the road ahead. Given how often these failures occur, why not just indicate? It costs nothing. If you aren't assessing the road properly your indicator style is going to do fuck all to change that.

This is spot on.

Any reasonable driver would rather be the person who indicated unnecessarily than the one who takes out a ped or cyclist in a moment of lapsed concentration because they're obsessed with SoCC, and wanking on about their emergency response qualifications on the internet.
 
Is there any legitimate benefit to doing these Advanced Driving Courses? They seem to turn people into smug complacent bellends who are more of a danger than someone who’s just passed their test
 
Is there any legitimate benefit to doing these Advanced Driving Courses? They seem to turn people into smug complacent bellends who are more of a danger than someone who’s just passed their test
well i'm demur to your experience as subject matter expert on being a smug complacent bellend
 
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