Drivers who don't indicate at junctions

[T & P]

A lot (most?) drivers never knew that at a junction they were always meant to give priority to pedestrians who had started crossing the road the driver was about to turn in to or out of. That was up until 2 years ago, now the driver should give priority to the pedestrian if they are simply waiting to cross.

So no, pedestrians shouldn't be watching out for cars or trying to work out which way they are going to turn by their speed or engine noise (lmao). Drivers should be watching the sides of the road when they turn and if they see any pedestrians who look like they might be about to cross; give way to them.

And they should be indicating obvs.

I fully agree with your post, but there is one notable exception that is not only extremely annoying but dangerous for all concerned: namely traffic light-governed junctions or T-junctions that include red & green man for pedestrians. This one in particular, on the King's Road by the fire station on my regular commute home, is a constant source of problems with pedestrians who not only ignore the lights but don't even bother to look before crossing:



Although the Street View doesn't show it clearly, the crossing is governed by pedestrian traffic lights. Just about every single day, you have to watch for peds crossing on a red man who don't have the common decency or basic sense of self preservation to look if there are any vehicles indicating to turn right and about to proceed if there is a gap in the oncoming traffic.

I have always respected and given way to pedestrians crossing or about to cross at unregulated junctions, even before it became law to yield to those about to cross. But it takes two to tango, and the lack of situational awareness (and self-preservation) as well as disregard of traffic regulations displayed by an alarming proportion of London pedestrians is astonishing. I have nothing against pedestrians ignoring the red man, just as I have nothing against other road users breaking other traffic regulations when the circumstances allow it. But bloody check for traffic turning onto the street first, ffs.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I'm sick of them. I walk a lot in London. And this involves a lot of crossing streets, particularly at junctions where there's vehicles approaching and I need to know if they're turning left or right into my path. If there's no indicator blinking then there should be no turning. Period.

I'm absolutely sick to death of cars and vans, just turning without indicating while I'm about to cross. Is it really that hard to pull the little lever? These people should get instant fines and be made to re-sit the highway code theory test. And do hard labour.

where a lane is a mandatory turn there is a school of thought that no indicator is require,d however where there are large numberso f pedtrians present there is also the argument that the indicator should be used,

 

[WouldBe]

where a lane is a mandatory turn there is a school of thought that no indicator is require,d however where there are large numberso f pedtrians present there is also the argument that the indicator should be used,

Just because there's a mandatory turn doesn't mean that drivers not familiar with the area know that or can see a turn arrow on the road if the car that wants to turn is stationary over it or traffic coming the other way know that's what they are doing.

 

[hash tag]

Re T & P's post about the Kings Road, pedestrians are too full of their own importance to worry about traffic. The whole world has to revolve around them.

 

[SpookyFrank]

where a lane is a mandatory turn there is a school of thought that no indicator is require,d however where there are large numberso f pedtrians present there is also the argument that the indicator should be used,

No reason to expect pedestrians to know which lane is which when a lot of motorists seem to be unable to puzzle out the meaning of those giant white arrows they paint on the road.

 

[Petcha]

All drivers are cunts. As a pedestrian I mean.

Unless they're Uber drivers taking me to the pub in which case they should be encouraged to do whatever it takes. Then pedestrians should fuck off and know their place.

 

[hash tag]

All drivers are cunts. As a pedestrian I mean.

Unless they're Uber drivers taking me to the pub in which case they should be encouraged to do whatever it takes. Then pedestrians should fuck off and know their place.

People trying to drive big 4x4's excepted, Uber drivers are possibly amongst some of the worst.

 

[Chilli.s]

Bollocks to self driving cars, whats needed is self punishing cars. fail to indicate, the car carefully pulls over and electrocutes the offending driver

Also speeding fines, automatically displayed on the dashboard as they occur, driver cannot exit the vehicle without paying them, slot for credit card in dash too.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Bollocks to self driving cars, whats needed is self punishing cars. fail to indicate, the car carefully pulls over and electrocutes the offending driver

Also speeding fines, automatically displayed on the dashboard as they occur, driver cannot exit the vehicle without paying them, slot for credit card in dash too.

do you drive ?

how do you contextualise the necessity to indicate or do you bleive that all changes of direction require indicator use ?

 

[WouldBe]

do you drive ?

how do you contextualise the necessity to indicate or do you bleive that all changes of direction require indicator use ?

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre.

MSM is rather outdated ,

the System of Car Control which is deemed the gold standard, as this is what underpins vocational, advanced and emergency services driver training uses the following

Information, Position, Speed , Gear , Acceleration

indicator use , like the use of the horn and flashing your main beams needs to be considered and contextualised

thisi s the difference between a driver and steering wheel operative

 

[Chilli.s]

do you drive ?

how do you contextualise the necessity to indicate or do you bleive that all changes of direction require indicator use ?

Yes i do drive, many miles this last year.

Signaling is an essential part of safe driving, not just for turnings but also for lane changes on motorways. Three flashes during a lane change just aint enough on a busy day, other drivers are not there to see how cool or accomplished your driving is and psychic communication just dont cut it

 

[nogojones]

I fully agree with your post, but there is one notable exception that is not only extremely annoying but dangerous for all concerned: namely traffic light-governed junctions or T-junctions that include red & green man for pedestrians. This one in particular, on the King's Road by the fire station on my regular commute home, is a constant source of problems with pedestrians who not only ignore the lights but don't even bother to look before crossing:

View attachment 410420

Although the Street View doesn't show it clearly, the crossing is governed by pedestrian traffic lights. Just about every single day, you have to watch for peds crossing on a red man who don't have the common decency or basic sense of self preservation to look if there are any vehicles indicating to turn right and about to proceed if there is a gap in the oncoming traffic.

I have always respected and given way to pedestrians crossing or about to cross at unregulated junctions, even before it became law to yield to those about to cross. But it takes two to tango, and the lack of situational awareness (and self-preservation) as well as disregard of traffic regulations displayed by an alarming proportion of London pedestrians is astonishing. I have nothing against pedestrians ignoring the red man, just as I have nothing against other road users breaking other traffic regulations when the circumstances allow it. But bloody check for traffic turning onto the street first, ffs.

It's the drivers responsibility to check and give way for pedestrians.

 

[T & P]

It's the drivers responsibility to check and give way for pedestrians.

Drivers have priority at the junction I described in my post since it is traffic light governed, and pedestrians should not cross on a red man at all.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Drivers have priority at the junction I described in my post since it is traffic light governed, and pedestrians should not cross on a red man at all.

I suggest you read the highway code

 

[InArduisFouette]

Yes i do drive, many miles this last year.

Signaling is an essential part of safe driving, not just for turnings but also for lane changes on motorways. Three flashes during a lane change just aint enough on a busy day, other drivers are not there to see how cool or accomplished your driving is and psychic communication just dont cut it

and your point is what exactly ?

 

[Chilli.s]

and your point is what exactly ?

As you said: context.

 

[T & P]

I suggest you read the highway code

If the Highway Code suggests it's okay for pedestrians to cross on a red man, the page that rule is printed on it's not worth the price of an equivalent sized piece of toilet paper.

 

[InArduisFouette]

If the Highway Code suggests it's okay for pedestrians to cross on a red man, the page that rule is printed on it's not worth the price of an equivalent sized piece of toilet paper.

read rules H1 -H3

where is the criminal offence in the UK of a pedstrian crossing against a Red light

want to ticket people for jaywalking , get across the Atlantic...

 

[nogojones]

Drivers have priority at the junction I described in my post since it is traffic light governed, and pedestrians should not cross on a red man at all.

They're not gonna put points on my pedestrian licence

 

[WouldBe]

MSM is rather outdated ,

the System of Car Control which is deemed the gold standard, as this is what underpins vocational, advanced and emergency services driver training uses the following

Information, Position, Speed , Gear , Acceleration

indicator use , like the use of the horn and flashing your main beams needs to be considered and contextualised

thisi s the difference between a driver and an inconsiderate fool.

FTFY

Only time I would consider it acceptable to move without indicating is in an emergency to avoid something.

And I've not driven for 20+ years.

 

[InArduisFouette]

FTFY

Only time I would consider it acceptable to move without indicating is in an emergency to avoid something.

And I've not driven for 20+ years.

thanks for confirming your ignorance on this topic

 

[T & P]

read rules H1 -H3

where is the criminal offence in the UK of a pedstrian crossing against a Red light

want to ticket people for jaywalking , get across the Atlantic...

Don't need to go that far; Germany would do. And funnily enough, the difference in behaviour across all types of road users there, whether four wheels, two wheels or on foot compared to those in London is astonishing. Something we should aspire to, rather than encourage irresponsible entitlement because the Highway Code doesn't legislate against certain behaviour however imprudent.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Germany does have a substantially higher death rate for traffic related killings than the UK though, so not all great over there. Spain is similar to Germany too. But yeah, people shouldn't just stride out in to traffic, just stupid and rude, two things that it seems more and more people aspire to being these days.

InArduisFouette





'Should' in the Highway Code means not mandated by law, but you open yourself up to legal action should you choose not to do it and something bad happens.

 

[T & P]

read rules H1 -H3

where is the criminal offence in the UK of a pedstrian crossing against a Red light

want to ticket people for jaywalking , get across the Atlantic...

And just to be clear, the rules you mentioned don't apply to the case I mentioned upthread, namely traffic light-governed crossings. This is actually what the Highway Code has to say about it:



Whether ignoring this rule is effectively immune from punitive action in this country is completely beside the point, certainly for anyone who claims to be interested pedestrian safety first and foremost.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Don't need to go that far; Germany would do. And funnily enough, the difference in behaviour across all types of road users there, whether four wheels, two wheels or on foot compared to those in London is astonishing. Something we should aspire to, rather than encourage irresponsible entitlement because the Highway Code doesn't legislate against certain behaviour however imprudent.

let's ignore theat germany does not keep death off the roads and has a higher RTC related death rate than the UK

 

[InArduisFouette]

And just to be clear, the rules you mentioned don't apply to the case I mentioned upthread, namely traffic light-governed crossings. This is actually what the Highway Code has to say about it:

View attachment 410552

Whether ignoring this rule is effectively immune from punitive action in this country is completely beside the point, certainly for anyone who claims to be interested pedestrian safety first and foremost.

there's a reason rules H1 to H3 of the highway code were numbered at such and placed at the very front of the Highway code

also where is the MUST in rule 21 ?

 

[T & P]

let;s ignore theat germany does not keep death off the roads nad has a higer RTC related death rate than the UK

How do pedestrian deaths compare, out of curiosity? They might be worse in Germany, but overall road deaths for the whole country that includes motorways and highways are not a valid indicator when discussing pedestrian safety.

 

[T & P]

there's a reason rules H1 to H3 of the highway code were numbered at such and placed at the very front of the Highway code

also where is the MUST in rule 21 ?

I see you continue to wilfully ignore the matter of what is safest, rather than what one is allowed to get away with however unwise.

 

[T & P]

How do pedestrian deaths compare, out of curiosity? They might be worse in Germany, but overall road deaths for the whole country that includes motorways and highways are not a valid indicator when discussing pedestrian safety.

And in answer to my own question, this table would suggest that pedestrian safety is in fact much better in Germany than in the UK. But I'm sure jaywalking laws in Germany and pedestrians religiously obeying the red man there have nothing to do with it.

Pedestrians killed in road traffic accidents - Data Portal - United Nations Economic Commission for Europe

w3.unece.org